margaret white.....

[jonami]

hi
i am trying to find birth of margaret white// whyte. lived and married in glasgow lanark in 1906 she married george williams on the tenth of february 1906 in the district of rollox at st mungo's church.
her mothers name was hannah whyte (cotton roller) margaret would have been born 1895. i think margaret was (illigitemate) i believe hannah lived at 78 gargandill glasgow in 1906 i need margarets birth certificate or any other help which will lead me to obtain b/cert
if anyone can help it will be very much appreciated
thanks jonami

[marilyn morning]

Hello Jonami

Welcome to TalkingScot. Have you tried to find Margaret's birth/marriage records on Scotlandspeople? Sp is the official goverment source for Scottish genealogy. Statutory Birth Register 1855-1904, Marriage Register 1855-1929 and Death Register 1855-1954. www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Good Luck with your research.
Marilyn

[Andy]

Hi there,

Look for the clues on the marriage certificate: How old was she when she married in 1908? Subtract the age and do a search either side of the supposed year of birth (it may be a bit earlier [rarely later]).

Have you found her in the 1901 or even possibly the 1891 census?

White/Whyte is quite a common name as is Margaret, however, Hannah is a good bit less common.

Assuming Margaret was over 18 in 1908 do a census check for Hannah White in 1891 and then do a cross reference with Margaret White (of 3 years plus or minus the marriage age) hopefully you'll get a result.

[DavidWW]

jonami

First look at Margaret's marriage record on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, and there you will find the name of her mother's husband, - a lot less common that WH[Y/I]TE. Look for Hannah with that surname in the 1891 census (not the 1901 census as Margaret isn't living with her mother by that time).

Note the Glasgow registration district involved in the 1891 census, and then, since the age shown in 1891 for Margaret confirms the likely years of birth as 1884/85, look in Glasgow City only for the birth of a Margaret WH*TE, and there are only two in that same registration district, one of which is the one that you need.

Davie

PS The marriage record of Hannah is easy to find, and that will give you the names of her parents, i.e. Margaret's grandparents.

[DavidWW]

Couldn't resist a peek at the 1901 census to see how easy/difficult it was to find Margaret. Searching in Lanarksire only on the exact age of 16 very quickly produces the record, ... see http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-126

Most interestingly, she is shown as the niece of John and Mary ?????? - that's the purpose of this post - to seek others' opinions on what the surname is. I think that it's quite clear, but still am intrigued in how others interpret the surname, - watch out for interference from the "y" in the line above.

There's only one slight problem. The family doesn't exist Flying saucer time again ?

Nope!, - there is a workaround which quickly produces the right family, and the conclusion that the enumerator got it badly wrong, especially when there's another surname on the same page that shows exactly how the start of the real name would have looked had he got it right.

Had Margaret not been in this household,then unless someone already knew the address, this family would effectively have disappeared from the 1901 census. A very neat little case study that I'll be using for years....


Davie

[WilmaM]

First glance looks like Green... but then if you take away the y from above and compare the letters it looks more like Breen !!

further ? what is the daughter's occupation - not a saucy box maker surely!

[nelmit]

Hi Davie,

From all your clues it has to be O'Brian! If it is well done!

Wilma the occupation is fancy box maker (my great aunt's occupation when she married).

Annette M

[AndrewP]

I agree with Wilma's interpretation - "Breen", comparing the "B" to that in Boyle above.

The daughter was a fancy box maker (I've seen that occupation on some other certificate elsewhere).

All the best,

Andrew Paterson
[edit] - Annette beat me to it - must have been working on it at the same time as me.

[CatrionaL]

Coulourful family this. I would say that Margaret Whyte's aunt and uncle were the Greens. My first guess was Broon, but then I thought that the ennumerator would know how to spell Brown.

And Wilma, perhaps the Fancy Boxes the daughter made were saucy!

Catriona

[DavidWW]

First glance looks like Green... but then if you take away the y from above and compare the letters it looks more like Breen !!

further ? what is the daughter's occupation - not a saucy box maker surely!

Annette and Wilma

I'd still go for Green, as there's at least one other clear "G" on the page where it's obvious this hand doesn't continue the lower stroke beneath the line, - in other words the whole of his "G"s sit above the line.

But , Annette, just how did you arrive at O'Brian ?? Pray tell O'Brian is not quite there, but just a vowel off.

For anyone wondering how to crack this, it's easy, but only because Margaret is in the household. Assume "niece" is correct, so that Mary is Mary WH[Y/I]TE; look at the age of the eldest "Green" and select an appropriate year range to search for a marriage between a Mary WH[Y/I]TE and a John, no surname - that's allowed, - in Glasgow City, - there's only a handful, and only the one match in a registration district in the same general area as other associated events.

On the birth register entry for wee Tommy there's John's signature (that on the marriage register entry is only a transcription, not an original!!), and it's very clear what it is, so it must have been the end of a long tiring day, - paraffin light, or gas, - for the enumerator to transcribe the actual name as "Green" (95%), - or "Breen" (5%) - just keeping my options open

Or am I being unfair on the enumerator?, - had John perchance had a dram or three so that his handwriting wasn't as clear as it could have been on the household return We'll never know

Davie

PS Later ......... just in case anyone is wondering, the 1891 census shows the correct surname, - it's a slightly confusing entry until it is realised that the John who is the Head of Household is John's father, so that all relationships are shown with respect to John Snr, and there's a very nice little snippet for John Snr, - not just "Ireland" as the place of birth, but the county as well!
dww