I still need some ideas with these Hardies please.

[Jockbird]

Hello all,

Hope you've all had a great Christmas.

Now perhaps it's just me enjoying a bit too much festive cheer but here's my problem....

My ancestors Helen (or Ellen) and David Hardie (or Hardy) came over from Ireland in 1855/6. When they came they had a wee son called Francis who died on 25/4/1856 at about a year old in Quay Street, Saltcoats.

On 4/12/1858 they then had another wee Francis born in Mrs McKillops back land, Quay Street, Stevenston. He's not with them in Quay Street on the 1861 census.....but he's also not on SP for a death.......and that's at any time up to 1955....well not called f* hard* which is where I'd got back to on wildcards. Only the first wee one appears.

Now, same family, David Hardie dies in May 1863 and it would appear that Helen/Ellen is blessed with a wee son in 1866ish. This wee chap is called Hugh. He's there on the 1871 census as Hugh Hardie, listed as son, born in Stevenston. He's there in 1881 (Helen is listed as Ellen Hardy)with her listed this time as Hugh McNeillie, still down as son and age still fits and he's a coal miner, albeit this time he's born in Saltcoats. There's another Hugh there too but a 25 year old & boarder from Wigtown.

He's still there, this time in the infirmary with a broken leg, when Ellen/Helen makes a poor relief app in 1884.............BUT......where's his birth record????

If any kind soul can save my sanity and help with this that'd be great.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

All the best
Donna
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[Jack]

Hi Donna,
Have you looked at this BC?
--
HUGH RAE - Birth: 06 JUN 1866 Stevenston, Ayr, Scotland
Parents: Mother: ELLEN RAE
--
Jack

[Jockbird]

Doh!

Jack, once again you are a wee gem, Rae was Ellen's maiden name....my goodness, what was she up to, it must've been the grief!

It didn't even dawn on me to look for him under her maiden name, that poor wee lad must've been so confused, that's 3 surnames in 15 years!

Right, back to square one with investigations under the name of Hugh Rae......thanks for my starter for 10!

Just wee Francis II to find now.

Many many thanks Jack & Have a great Hogmanay & New Year.

All the best
Donna
x

Have you checked that date of birth with all the 6s, that just spells trouble!

[Jack]

Hi Donna,
The Ayrshire index i have has this. David 8 & Francis 2 are on page 31.
--
1861 census 615 Ed 7 pp 30-31 (Stevenston)
David HARDIE, 34, b. Ireland
Ellen HARDIE, 36, b Ireland
William J. HARDIE, 12, b Ireland
Mary E. HARDIE, 10, b Ireland
David HARDIE, 8, b. Ireland
Francis HARDIE, 2, b Stevenston
--
Jack

[Jockbird]

Hi Jack,

My apologies , I meant to say he's not with them in 1871, you are quite right the wee soul is there in 1861 with his siblings (William is my Gx2 grandfather, Mary is married with kiddies by 1881, David too marries by 1881, she then has Joseph in 1861, who is married by 1881 and Hugh in 1866, who's trying to find out what's he's called in 1881!!!).

Admittedly Francis may have been elsewhere on census night in 1871 but he's not mentioned at all in his mother's poor relief app of 1884 and she does list the other living children & states how many dependants each has at that time.

That said, she may have listed him as Francis Rae for his death cert.

I think I need to rethink this lot, I'd not even found a plausible Ellen/Helen death (1891 has a Helen Hardie in Cunninghame Comination Poorhouse, correct age, born Ireland, however a corresponding death in 1893 gives the wrong parent info....ok it's only as good as they'd been told) but I'm now wondering if she reverted to Rae .

I do wish she'd been consistent, the only thing she has been consistent with is her inconsitency on the names front!

Oh dear, ma heid's spinning and my credit card is trembling!

Best wishes
Donna
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[David Lang]

Donna

I had a similar case in Aberdeenshire with a Helen/Ellen Black or Campbell.

She was known up until 1851 by her married name Campbell , then for some reason she reverts to Black and so do the youngest 3 of 5 children ,the older 2 being married and away.

Eventually found her DC after numerous searches and a few £s on SP and only because she is witness to a second marriage of one of her children who used the name Campbell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DavidWW]

Another possibility is that FrancisII wasn't known as Francis, but as Frank; although I'd suspect that the different surname route is the more likely.

David

[Jockbird]

Hi David & Davie,

Thanks for the replies, these peole that change their names at will are menaces.

I think I'm going to have to go wildcard mad with these ones. I've tried *le* Hard* for Ellen/Helen, I've tried it adding in R* for other name, perhaps she's ditched the name Hardy totally, it's the one route I've not taken.

Now I know a surname for Hugh...well 3, I'm hoping that I can trace a marriage or a death.

As for wee Francis II, I did wonder if he was called Frank so I've tried F* Hard*, unrecorded ages with yob 1858 +/- 10, there's 15-20 or so that come up but none that fit. I think I'd better look for some Rae deaths in Ayrshire and see how I get on.

Pity SP don't do January sales!!!!

All the best
Donna
x

[Jockbird]

Hello!

The plastic is begging for mercy but I have sorted Hugh!!! He was born Hugh Rae (thanks for that one Jack) in 1866, he's called Hugh Hardy(ie) in 1871, he's Hugh McNeillie in 1881, he's back as a Hardie in 1884, he's a McNeillie in 1891, he marries in 1897 to Agnes Mitchell and is called McNellie and dies a McNeillie in 1935!!!

Thankfully he got siblings to be witness at his marriage and married in the street where he'd pretty much always lived.

Now I've tried to apply the same principle to his Mum, Ellen/Helen Hardie or Rae and his older half-sibling Francis but it's not worked!

I'm all idead out, I thought I'd struck lucky with Helen as on Hugh's marriage certificate from 1897 it says she's deceased. It also gives his parents as Hugh McNeillie and Helen McNeillie, M.S Harvie (I know yet another name!). I started to look for a Hugh & Helen marriage, zilch.....then a death using all the names and variations....zilch. I've even got a list of all the Hardie deaths in Ardrossan Old & New.....nothing....I extended it to Ayrshire then the whole of Scotland.....nothing other that this Cunninghame Poorhouse one in 1893.

The same goes for Francis...nothing. Now for Francis, could a parent get away with not registering a death? k

Have any of you got any ideas? [-o<

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Happy Hogmanay & New Year!!!!

Donna
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