What does this mean?.....

Birth, Marriage, Death

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Alison Plenderleith
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:22 pm
Location: Leitholm, Scottish Borders

What does this mean?.....

Post by Alison Plenderleith » Fri May 13, 2005 10:21 pm

Hello All,

On the 1881 census I came across a Robert McIntosh, grandson, aged 11, birthplace Currie, Midlothian

On the IGI his birth record shows him as born 3.11.1869 Currie, Midlothian to parents Robert McIntosh and Margaret May (it was Margaret's mother I was researching).
Underneath where it says extracted birth record it says "This information was generated from another entry that appears in this index. Look for another entry for this person."

I can't find another entry for him.

On SP I searched for Robert *intosh , 1869, Midlothian and there were none.
I also searched for Robert May as I couldn't find a marriage for the parents but no good either.

I'm not quite sure what it all means and hoping someone can shed some light on it please.

Regards,

Alison :?

AndrewP
Site Admin
Posts: 6154
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Edinburgh

Post by AndrewP » Fri May 13, 2005 10:49 pm

No sign so far of Robert McIntosh (b. 03 Nov 1869 to Robert McIntosh and Margaret May) elsewhere, or Robert May, in case he was listed by his mother's maiden surname.
  • ROBERT MCINTOSH (illegitimate)
    1869 November Third, 3hr, 30m, pm, Balerno, Currie
    M
    Parents: Robert McIntosh, Mason; Margaret May, Domestic Servant
    Signed: Margaret May, Mother; Robert McIntosh, father, Birkhill feus, parish of Liff and Benvey
    Registered 1870 February 2nd
** note: birth registered in 1870.
** Benvey should be Benvie (RD = Liff, Benvie and Invergowrie).

Another entry for Currie is one that could be of interest to you is Isabella Plenderleith Ramsay, born to William Ramsay and Margaret May (married 15 May 1872, Currie). Is this the same Margaret May?

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sat May 14, 2005 9:55 am

This one had ma heid birlin for a wee while .......

In order to answer the original question I started to do a wee bit of digging.........

The 1881 census entry referred to is ..............

Dwelling: Belmont Road Mayfield Front
Census Place: Colinton, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0223985 GRO Ref Volume 677 EnumDist 4 Page 24
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Robert MAY M 65 M Currie, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Labourer In Mill
Isabella MAY M 59 F Currie, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Occ: Grocer
Robert MAY U 16 M Currie, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Clerk
Alexander MAY 12 M Currie, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Robert MC INTOSH 11 M Currie, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: G Son
Occ: Scholar

Checking on the birth of Robert MAY shows his parents' names as Robert MAY and Isabella PLENDERLEITH.

The 1872 marriage of Margaret MAY to William RAMSAY shows her parents as Robert MAY and Isabella PLENDERLEITH.

Sooo... always assuming that the above Robert MCINTOSH is Margaret's son, and that seems likely, then this is indeed the same Margaret.

So where is she in the 1881 census? Here she is ..........

Dwelling: John St
Census Place: Penicuik, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224023 GRO Ref Volume 697 EnumDist 6 Page 12
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James KEARY M 30 M Penicuik, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Paper Mill Worker
Margaret KEARY M 30 F Currie, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Robert KEARY 4 M Glasgow
Rel: Son
John KEARY 2 M Glasgow
Rel: Son
Elisabeth KEARY 1 F Penicuik, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Daur

As Margaret MAY, "spinster", parents Robert MAY and Isabella PLENDERLEITH married James KEARY in Camlachie in Glasgow in 1876. So William RAMSAY must have died between 1872 and 1876?, and Margaret was mistakenly described as a spinster - if he did die in Scotland then there's no trace apart from the possibility of two Marine Records, - but he was a Papermaker in 1872.......

Heid birlin?, - saes mines :roll:

And wir no feenished yet.

On the 1872 RAMSAY/MAY marriage register entry there's an RCE annotation referring to a divorce, but it's too faint to make out the date ......

Suggestions on a postcard, please, to .....................

Occam's Razor would lead to the RAMSAY marriage followed by divorce followed by remarriage to James KEARY, but Margaret wrongly described as spinster, or hiding her divorce, and young Robert carefully planked out the way with Margaret's parents .............

Other points of interest, Margaret's father was a papermill worker, so were William RAMSAY and his father, as were James KEARY and his father. The 1872 marriage was UP, and the 1876 marriage, - in Glasgow, with both showing addresses there, next door to each other, - was Episcopal.

Neatly tieing it all together is the 1937 death of Margaret KEARY in Glencorse, not far from Currie, shown as the widow of James KEARY, parents Robert and Isabella as previously, informant Rob. MACKINTOSH, Son....... but no reference to william RAMSAY ..........

Getting back to the original question, LDS give prime importance to the date of birth, in this case in 1869, but not registered, for wahtever reason until 1870, so I can only assume that "This information was generated from another entry that appears in this index. Look for another entry for this person" refers to the register entry not being in 1869 ..........


Davie

Alison Plenderleith
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:22 pm
Location: Leitholm, Scottish Borders

Post by Alison Plenderleith » Sat May 14, 2005 4:40 pm

Well done you, Davie =D>

Yes ma heids birlin!

What a girl she seems to have been. :shock:
Next stop SP to see where Isabella Plenderleith Ramsay is in 1881. If she hasn't died then I wonder who she's been farmed out to.

Can't wait for RCEs to come online! I would imagine it was rather unusual to get divorced at that time unless you were wealthy, which they obviously weren't.

Many, many thanks, Davie, got loads to go and follow up on now.


Many thanks to you too Andrew. It hadn't occured to me to search on the following year.

Kind regards,

Alison :D

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sat May 14, 2005 5:52 pm

Alison Plenderleith wrote:....snipped.........Can't wait for RCEs to come online! I would imagine it was rather unusual to get divorced at that time unless you were wealthy, which they obviously weren't.Alison :D
On the contrary, if there was a genuine case for divorce, then advocates in Edinburgh took on cases on a pro bono basis !!

Davie