HELP WITH MARRIAGE CERT

ELLEN 44 · Post by **ELLEN 44** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:30 am

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1143

My interpretation is:

1919, on the Twenty Seventh day of November
at 5 Drumfrochar Road, Greenock
After Banns according to the forms of the Established Church of Scotland
(signed) Angus Elstob, _____ ______ (______), 24, of 29 Dempster Street, Greenock
(signed) Margaret Campbell, Baker's Assistant (Spinster), 23, of 104 Drumfrochar Road, Greenock
James Elstob, _____; Agnes Elstob, M.S. _____.
Alexander Campbell, Tollkeeper(?); Susan Campbell, M.S. _______.
(signed) John G _____, _______.
(signed) James Arthur, witness; (signed) Susan _____, witness
1919, December 1st at Greenock, H Boland, Assistant Registrar.Could someone please help fill in the blanks on marriage cert many thanks to AndrewP the help he as giving to me.Ellen

Post by **emanday** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:50 am

Hi Ellen44,

Frankly, try as I might, I could only get a few bits, even with the help of Photoshop. I'd suggest that you send SP a contact form "illegible image" and they will probably send you a better copy by post. However, here's what little I did get although I'm not even convinced

1919, on the Twenty Seventh day of November
at 5 Drumfrochar Road, Greenock
After Banns according to the forms of the Established Church of Scotland
(signed) Angus Elstob, _____ Journeyman (?Batchelor?), 24, of 29 Dempster Street, Greenock
(signed) Margaret Campbell, Baker's Assistant (Spinster), 23, of 104 Drumfrochar Road, Greenock
James Elstob, _____; Agnes Elstob, M.S. ________
Alexander Campbell, Tollkeeper(?); Susan Campbell, M.S.Kay possibly?.

(signed) John G _____, _______.
(signed) James Arthur, witness; (signed) Susan Walker or Walter, witness
1919, December 1st at Greenock, H Boland, Assistant Registrar.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

ELLEN 44 · Post by **ELLEN 44** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:56 am

Thanks for trying Mary AndrewP said to contact SP to so i think i will many thanks again.Ellen

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:23 pm

Best I can do is .................

1919, on the Twenty Seventh day of November
at 5 Drumfrochar Road, Greenock
After Banns according to the forms of the Established Church of Scotland
(signed) Angus Elstob, Engineer (Journeyman) (Batchelor), 24, of 29 Dempster Street, Greenock
(signed) Margaret Campbell, Baker's Assistant (Spinster), 23, of 104 Drumfrochar Road, Greenock
James Elstob, Engineer; Agnes Elstob, M.S. Cowan
Alexander Campbell, Toll(maybe Inn?)keeper; Susan Campbell, M.S.Lang.

(signed) John G Macpherson (?), Minister.
(signed) James Arthur, witness;
(signed) Susan Walker, witness
1919, December 1st at Greenock, H Boland, Assistant Registrar.

But I cheated.

Using the info in the marriage register entry, I derived all the other info from censuses and a birth register entry and a marriage register entry.

Where the ELSTOB family was in 1901 Ah dinna ken; I shudder to think how they might have been indexed, but they're there in Greenock in 1891!

If you're in a hurry, however, and can't wait for the copy from GROS, it does show how to work around such a problem.

Just be thankful that you didn't have to interpret the marriage entry above

David

Post by **emanday** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:48 pm

Just be thankful that you didn't have to interpret the marriage entry above

My first reaction was EEEK! when I first opened the image. That first entry is really bad!

ELLEN 44 · Post by **ELLEN 44** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:31 pm

Thank you so much DavidWW what can i say the work you all do on TS is GREAT

and yes am glad i did'nt have to read the first marriage and like Mary when i downloaded the image i thought how am i going to read that until i took a better look and i found that hard to read.Now i can add them to my family tree thanks again for your help from Ellen

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:51 pm

ELLEN 44 wrote:Thank you so much DavidWW what can i say the work you all do on TS is GREAT and yes am glad i did'nt have to read the first marriage and like Mary when i downloaded the image i thought how am i going to read that until i took a better look and i found that hard to read.Now i can add them to my family tree thanks again for your help from Ellen

Hi Ellen

My pleasure !!

Your good fortune is that this situation turned out to be a perfect example of how to work around readability issues!. OK, I'm near certain that the photocopy that you receive from GROS will be much more easily readable, but when you're hot on the trail, it's good to know that there is a simple, straightforward workaround, costing not that many credits, - in this case ca. 30 !

What further absobloodylutely fascinates me in this instance, and played a significant role in the extent to which I investigated this situation, is that this appears to be a classic situation of a situation involving a most unusual surname.

Sometimes, when the spelling of such a surname is very obvious, this can be of great assistance.

On other occasions, however, as here with ELSTOB, it can lead to major problems, because of the way in which the name has to be assumed to vary greatly, since some records are easy to locate, but other records appear to be totally lacking !, which I just don't believe

In this instance, for example, I cannot find the family in the 1901 or 1881 censuses (anyone else like to have a go at the 1881 situation

), nor can I find the circa 1895 birth of Angus ELSTOB.

Just to complicate matters further, there's two instances of different surnames of the parent on different register entries, one involving Angus's mother's father, another involving Angus's father's mother

Based on other records, I'd be surprised if Angus's birth was anywhere other than Greenock, but, wha kens?, maybe Agnes went back to her Mammie's place for this birth, but I still can't see a matching birth anywhere else, unless, of course, it's furth of Auld Scotia !

Instead, I'd suspect that Angus's birth is "hiding" behind a variant spelling in the index, possibly due to a transcription error in the index as opposed to the entry itself.

Given the knowledge of his age and elder siblings' births in Greenock, then my own next step in such a situation would be to have a look at the microfiches of the register at New Register House, since, at the end of the register, after the last full entry, there is an index of all of the entries for the year, - in other words, look for any births involving an Angus, and see if the parents match !!, and learn the surname spelling used

David

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:01 pm

emanday wrote:
Just be thankful that you didn't have to interpret the marriage entry above
My first reaction was EEEK! when I first opened the image. That first entry is really bad!

Naw, no bad, just impossible

David

Post by **Jean Jeanie** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:07 pm

Can't find them at all in 1881.

The only Elstob(b) Elstub families appear in England, but none with a mother, Agnes.

Jack is usually pretty good at finding these. Lets hope he has a look at this post.

Jean

Post by **emanday** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:16 pm

DavidWW wrote:
emanday wrote:
Just be thankful that you didn't have to interpret the marriage entry above
My first reaction was EEEK! when I first opened the image. That first entry is really bad!
Naw, no bad, just impossible

David

OK, I concede, impossible