Bit of a Puzzler! Walker Family

Birth, Marriage, Death

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linniestorm
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Bit of a Puzzler! Walker Family

Post by linniestorm » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:05 pm

Hello! A contact of mine on one side of my family history recommended checking out Talking Scot as she said the forums were extremely informative. I've had a bit of a lurk round a couple of times, but have just been struck by a bit of a genealogy puzzler, and then it hit me, ask the experts! So here I am!

I've been having a bit of trouble making any sort of headway with my Campbell and Walker ancestors. Mostly due to a mistranscribed name, it was ages before I had any luck at all getting past my gg grandparents. Now due to more mixing up of names, I'm having a similar problem! I'll start from the beginning and try not to get too convoluted, hopefully, somebody might be able to point me in the right direction!

The ancestor in question is a Mary Ann Walker, my ggg-grandmother. The only info I had originally was from her marriage certificate, that her parents were John Walker and Margaret (can't make out the next marked name, it looks like Wyness or Vyness!) Geddes, and she married Alexander Campbell in Aberdeen 1869.

Then I discovered her death certificate, which I can tell you, confused the heck out of me! Here her parents are listed as George Walker and Annie Hare. It's definitely the right person as it lists Alexander as her late husband.

I've not been able to trace a birth to either set of parents and it was only today I've managed to tack onto her in the censuses. At least this gave me an area to search in, as she's listed her place of birth as various places in Banffshire on all census' 1871-1901. Prior to getting census info, I was more apt to accept John Walker and Margaret Geddes as her parents as she gave this information on her marriage certificate and thought this was more likely to be reliable than the death certificate with info from her daughter.

Now on the first census prior to her marriage 1861, she is listed as sort of between 2 households! Even though it looks at though she is listed as the 13 yr old niece of Mary Christie (Boarding House owner), faint writing by her name seems to link her to the household below, which is George and Janet Walker! It all seemed very curious, but then looking at the 1851 census, she is listed as the daughter of George and Janet Walker. So I tried this in a birth certificate search and only one came up in Banffshire, in 1847, not 1849 as the ages work out, a Mary Walker born to a George Walker and Janet Christie! Which could mean on the 1861 census that she was the Walker's daughter but was next door with her aunt when the census was taken. Maybe the writing was faint to link her to her parents next door.

Anyway, this has become convoluted, apologies, but I'm now very confused!!! Why for a start did she give completed the wrong parents on her marriage certificate, if George and Janet were her parents! Having had a look for why George and Annie are listed as her parents on her death certificate, I couldn't find a marriage between a George Walker and Annie Hare, althought there was one to an Annie Christie! I really don't know what to make of all this, does anyone have any thoughts?! Thanks in advance for them, this is about as clear as mud to me!

Lindsay

DavidWW
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Post by DavidWW » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:35 pm

Hi Lindsay!

And a great welcome to TalkingScot !!


But a possible cold water shower !!


The manner in which Mary Ann's parents are listed on the marriage register entry are indicative of one of two things......

The entry is

John WALKER
Commerical Traveller
(Deceased)

Margaret WYNESS
MS GEDDES


(A "W" of that era ain't easy to interpret!)

Either she was (a) the illegitimate child of John and Margaret, or (b) it's been left out that, after the death of previous husband John WALKER, she married Mr WYNESS, in which case the entry should be shown as ..........

John WALKER
Commerical Traveller
(Deceased)

Margaret WYNESS
previously WALKER
MS GEDDES


Given the 1858 marriage between James WYNESS, 56, and Margaret GEDDES, 36, in Rathven, I tend to believe (a) :!:

Unfortunately, in 1858, the marital status was not reliably given, - he's shown as a Widower, but there's no entry for her marital status !!: BTW, both were resident in Buckie, in Rathven parish, and the marriage was (Roman) Catholic, so that there could well be an RC register record to check, especially in relation to her "marital condition".

And, BINGO ! ! ! , there's a matching census entry in Rathven for James and Margaret WYNESS, with the household contianing a 13 year old "Stp. Daur." Mary Ann WALKER, born in Rathven. QED :?: :!:

As a doublecheck of this entry, the 2 year old "fruit" of this late marriage, wee 2 year old George Geddes WYNESS's birth register entry does indeed confirm his parents as James WYNES and Margaret WYNES MS GEDDES. Again, if she had been previously married, then her name should have been shown as MARGARET WYNES previously WALKER MS GEDDES.

Which is all leading me to the conclusion that wee Mary Ann was, in fact, the illegitimate daughter of John WALKER and Margaret GEDDES.


Unless there's other evidence, e.g. proof that the informant, Annie WALLACE, 26 Carntyne Road, was the daughter of Alexander and Mary Ann, and that Alexander turns up in the censuses as other than his occupation at marriage of Engine Cleaner, - preferably Electrician as on Mary Ann's death register entry, I don't regard it as proven that this is her death register entry!

Possible, verging on the probable, yes, but the combination of Mary (not necessarily the dual Mary Ann) CAMPBELL and WALKER has to give rise to other possible matching records.

The occupation of "Commercial Traveller" shown for George WALKER, matching that of John WALKER on the 1869 marriage register entry does indeed lead to a higher probability that a Mr WALKER was her faither, but the entry for the mother as "Annie WALKER MS HARE" is way off; but then the information provided by death register entry informants is notoriously unreliable, - I'd have hoped and expected that a daughter would provide more accurate info than a son, but I've too much experience of the inaccuracies of the information provided in such circumstances by informants on their grandparents :!:

I'd be interested to have the specific references to the various census references to which you refer in your post.

David
Last edited by DavidWW on Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JustJean
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Post by JustJean » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:45 pm

In other words....there are clearly two Mary Ann WALKER's. A legitimately born Mary Ann in Banff to George Walker and Janet and then the Mary Ann WALKER in the household of Margaret GEDDES SCOTT WYNESS LUKE (see her DC in 1895....) Note no mention of a WALKER in that lineup!

You've got the wrong gal in 1861....but David has the right one.

Best wishes
Jean

DavidWW
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:58 pm

JustJean wrote:In other words....there are clearly two Mary Ann WALKER's. A legitimately born Mary Ann in Banff to George Walker and Janet and then the Mary Ann WALKER in the household of Margaret GEDDES SCOTT WYNESS LUKE (see her DC in 1895....) Note no mention of a WALKER in that lineup!

You've got the wrong gal in 1861....but David has the right one.

Best wishes
Jean
Absolutely pure deid brilliant, but then I'd expect nothing else from JustJean :!: =D> =D> [5 cups]

The informant, Step Daughter, Elizabeth GIBSON, living in Aberdeen, as was the deceased, has got James WYNESS's occupation wrong, - he was a Ropemaker, - but the parents match exactly with those on the 1858 marriage register entry :!:

The marriage in Aberdeen shows Margaret as .....

Margaret WYNNES
(Widow of James
WYNESS, Ropemaker)


David

AnneM
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Post by AnneM » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:12 pm

Damn it

Youse lot got in before me. Had found Mary Ann in 1861 but could not find her in 1851!!

Anne

BTW You have the bonus in 1861 of Elspet Geddes the granny in the same household. That should take you another generation back if you find her DC.
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

AnneM
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Post by AnneM » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:21 pm

Right!

Since that lot insist on being faster off the mark than me, here is the death of Elspet:

Elspet Geddes, Widow of James Geddes, tailor, 22 Jun 1873, Buckie, 83 Years Father William England Linen Weaver deceased Mother Margaret England m.s. Ogilvie deceased.
Cause Chronic Bronchitis and Old Age 6 months
Informant George Geddes, son, present

Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

DavidWW
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Post by DavidWW » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:24 pm

AnneM wrote:Damn it
Now, now !! :wink:
AnneM wrote:Youse lot got in before me. Had found Mary Ann in 1861 but could not find her in 1851!!
It's called the "slow Sunday evening effect", or maybe "Hey!, - this is a really interesting one effect" :!: :shock:
AnneM wrote:BTW You have the bonus in 1861 of Elspet Geddes the granny in the same household. That should take you another generation back if you find her DC.
Indeed :!:

So just where is she in 1851, never mind her Mammie in 1841 :?:

David
Last edited by DavidWW on Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DavidWW
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Post by DavidWW » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:26 pm

AnneM wrote:Right!

Since that lot insist on being faster off the mark than me, here is the death of Elspet:

Elspet Geddes, Widow of James Geddes, tailor, 22 Jun 1873, Buckie, 83 Years Father William England Linen Weaver deceased Mother Margaret England m.s. Ogilvie deceased.
Cause Chronic Bronchitis and Old Age 6 months
Informant George Geddes, son, present

Anne
:wink: =D> [5 cups]

And thank the Guid Lord for 83 year olds from 1855 onwards

David

AnneM
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Post by AnneM » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:50 pm

I will admit that the death of Mary Ann also has me stumped. The only likely one is the one which Lindsay found with the way off parents. In 1901 alexander appears as telephone repair foreman. A bit of a promotion from a Vanman in 1891 but it is the same family.

I wondered if Alexander had died and Mary Ann married again but have you seen the number of possible Alexander Campbell deaths???? This is definitely an NRH job.

The odd thing is that in the 1891 census they don't seem to have a daugher Annie but I'll admit to having omitted to look at the 1881.

Anne

They certainly had daughter Ann born 1870 but I can't see her marriage to a Mr Wallace.
Last edited by AnneM on Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters

JustJean
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Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:00 pm

DON' T ASK :shock: ..but here she is in 1851....

Name: Mary Ann Wylie
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relationship: Great Grandchild (Grandchild)
Mother's name: Margaret
Gender: Female
Where born: Rathven, Banffshire
Parish Number: 164
Civil parish: Rathven
Town: Farnoughty
County: Banffshire
Address: Farnoughy
ED: 12
Page: 7 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 21
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1851_36
Household Members: Name Age
Alexr Geddes 18
Elspeth Geddes 61
James Geddes 62
Margaret Geddes 30
Mary Ann Wylie 3

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