How to Pronounce Rose.....

MacThistle · Post by **MacThistle** » Thu May 21, 2009 12:41 pm

Good Evening All

Currently it is 11.34pm Thursday 21 May 2009! (New Zealand), am not sure if I have got the GMT right in my profile etc!

Anyhow, would anyone know just how it is I would pronounce my Gt Gt Grandfathers name Rose? It is his forename, surname Porter. Lordy does it ever give me grief when conducting searches! I end up with a whole lot of young and not so young lassies if there is no gender option.

Post by **joette** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:02 pm

Hi McThistle and welcome to [talkingscot]

.
I am presuming the name was not for the christian name ROSE but as the surname ROSE.I would be looking to see what his family's connections to the Rose's are.Maybe Mother's maiden name? However some name connections are tenuous-the Minister that baptised them or the Dr who delivered them etc.
I would pronounce it the same as the forename.

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:30 pm

Is this your guy?

ROSE PORTER Male
Spouse: MARY SIMPSON
Marriage: 01 JUL 1845 Old Machar, Aberdeen, Scotland

Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record
from the IGI at Family Search

Freecen 1841 census:
Piece: SCT1841/249 Place: Udny -Aberdeenshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Udny Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 5 Page: 9
Address: Tillygreig
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
RAE Thomas M 40 Farmer Aberdeenshire
RAE Ann F 30 Outside Census County (1841)
LESLIE Elizabeth F 25 Female Servant Outside Census County (1841)
LESLIE Mary F 15 Female Servant Outside Census County (1841)
PORTER Rose M 25 Agricultural Labourer Aberdeenshire
FYFE Charles M 18 Agricultural Labourer Aberdeenshire
YOUNG William M 15 Agricultural Labourer Aberdeenshire
DAVIDSON Thomas M 6 Lodger Aberdeenshire
DUGUID Elisa F 5 Lodger Aberdeenshire

I can't see him any further on, on freecen.

As to how you would pronounce the name ROSE:
The same way as the flower, but then different accents would do that slightly differently.
I [Lowland Scot] would actually say RO-z, others would say Rouse.
If your man is from Aberdeenshire it could be rOUs.

But equally if he moved from his native parts he could end up changing his given name entirely or be Ross.

MacThistle · Post by **MacThistle** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:32 pm

Hello Joette

Many thanks for the welcome! Well I have copies/extracts of both his marriage and death, his mothers surname was Tocher/Tucker, I am unable to find a birth for him though. Rose and his son Seaton are both in hiding when it comes to birth records. I seem to have inherited a family who just loved to 'sow' wild oats!

Seaton was born in Udny in 1839 - I had a lucky break - he moved to NZ and thus died here, and it was from his obituary that I got his date of birth, he died on his birthday!

But yes had thought of the ROSE connection, but am not sure how or where to look. Have been tracing my family for years and seem to be getting no further ahead in some areas, which is why I joined this lovely wee group

MacThistle · Post by **MacThistle** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:41 pm

Wilma....

How did you come up with all that? Hehe...most of that information I had, but not thru the census although I did try. The Rae's I think are going to be his in laws, one of Roses sisters, Helen from memory, married a Rae, Seaton, (mentioned in previous postings) lived with them for several years, even took the surname Rae for a time. Rose married a Mary Simpson in 1845 but Seatons marriage and death certificates name his mother as Mary Sangster. Seaton born in 1839

Many thanks for what you did provide Wilma, much appreciated.

*looks for backflip smiley*

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:54 pm

Well, here's your Seaton laddie in 1841:

Piece: SCT1841/243 Place: Tarves -Aberdeenshire Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Tarves Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 1 Page: 6
Address: Kilnery
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
RAE John M 30 Ag Lab Aberdeenshire
RAE Mary F 30 Aberdeenshire
RAE Jane F 7 Aberdeenshire
RAE Mary F 3 Aberdeenshire
PORTER Seaton M 2 Aberdeenshire

and possibly 1851:
Piece: SCT1851/174 Place: Belhelvie -Aberdeenshire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Belhelvie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Belhelvie
Folio: 145 Page: 18 Schedule: 75
Address: Wester Craigie
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
THOMSON James Head M M 26 Farmer 91 Acres Aberdeenshire - Foveran
THOMSON Elizabeth Wife M F 27 Aberdeenshire - Belhelvie
THOMSON Susan Dau U F 8 Scholar Aberdeenshire - Belhelvie
THOMSON John Son U M 5 Aberdeenshire - Foveran
THOMSON William Son U M 1 Aberdeenshire - Belhelvie
THOMSON (-) Son - M 1m Aberdeenshire - Belhelvie
KNIGHT Charlot Servnt U F 20 House Servant Aberdeenshire - Burtie
RAE Seaton Servnt U M 14 Farm Servant Aberdeenshire - Udny

I just looked at Freecen http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl on the off chance [nice unusual names!] ScotlandsPeople will have the original documents.

The area they were living in then is around the OldMeldrum/Ellon Area of Aberdeenshire - perhaps this was the farm? http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1172360

MacThistle · Post by **MacThistle** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:33 pm

Wilma,

that is indeed my grt grandfather Seaton. Many thanks for your efforts, I had actually got the info you have so kindly furnished me with xxxx I will elaborate further tomorrow, as you seem to have a knack for finding info.
Breifly tho... my grt grandfather Seaton seems to be illegitimate, he gives his mothers name as Mary Sangster in his marriage certif. and it is also on his death certif. His father Rose married Mary Simpson in 1845 @ Old Machar and they had 3 children that I am able to find via the FamilySearch site. Seaton was born in 1839 in Udny. I have managed to find the birth of Mary Sangster, her father oddly enough is call Seton! So going with the scottish naming pattern it seems to fit More recently I found the siblings of Mary Sangster and the marriage of her parents. Seton Sangster/Margt Dickie.
I have found the marriage of Roses parents, John Porter/Eliz. Tocher.

It is after he is 14yrs and in that last cenus, that I loose track of Seaton. It is not until Dec. 1866 that he appears again, he married a Margaret Wilkie at Benholm, Kincardine. Have copy of marriage extract. They go on to have four children before moving to New Zealand ca. 1871. In all they had 10 children! My grandfather James was the first child born to them here in 1873. Seaton and Margaret settled in Balclutha, Otago.

Goodness did I say BREIFLY??
I must away as it is early hours of the a.m, thank you once more, much appreciated

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Thu May 21, 2009 3:54 pm

Hello MacThistle,

Here are some newspaper notices.

Aberdeen Weekly Journal, Friday, February 22, 1889
DEATHS—At 7 Merkland Road, Aberdeen, on the 21st inst., MARY SIMPSON, wife of the late Rose Porter, merchant, Spital, in her 69th year.

Aberdeen Weekly Journal, Monday, February 25, 1889
DEATHS—At 1 Merkland Road, Aberdeen, on the 21st inst., MARY SIMPSON, wife of the late Rose Porter, merchant, Spital, in her 69th year. Funeral on Tuesday, 26th inst., at Two o’clock p.m., to St Peter’s Cemetery. Friends omitted please accept this intimation.

The Aberdeen Journal, Wednesday, January 29, 1862
Article about the Elsick Annual Ploughing Match held on the Farm of Newhall, possessed by Mr Alexander Mutch. A list of prize winner’s, Seaton Porter, servant to Mr. Mutch, Newhall, came 5th. Does this fit the picture?

Hope that’s interesting,
Alan

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Thu May 21, 2009 5:53 pm

Here they are in 1851 living at Aberdeen North-

Rose Porter 32 born Methlic, Spirit Dealer
Mary Porter 31
Seaton Porter 11 born Udny
George Porter 5
Mary Porter 3 Mo

1861 & 71 Mary is on her own with the children (but not Seaton). I take it you have Seaton in 1871 at Angus.

1861 transcribed Seton at Ancestry he is at Foveran working as a ploughman age 21.

Regards,
Annette

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Thu May 21, 2009 6:58 pm

I don't know how you could prove this but could this be Rose's parents in 1841 from FREECEN.

Piece: SCT1841/221 Place: Methlic -Aberdeenshire Enumeration District: 8
Civil Parish: Methlick Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 8 Page: 2
Address: Muir Of Tangland

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
PORTER John M 70 Ag Lab Aberdeenshire
PORTER Elisabeth F 70 Aberdeenshire
PORTER Ann F 20 Aberdeenshire
NOT KNOWN Not Known F 2 Aberdeenshire
NOT KNOWN Not Known F 1 Aberdeenshire

There is also an Alexander Porter at the next household (Son???).

Regards,
Annette