birth recorded twice in 1874

killearnan · Post by **killearnan** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:39 pm

gmg wrote: 1. Jane (jnr)was married . Her birthplace on 1881 census is registered as Kirkcowan but I couldn't find her in the SR's. I did wonder if she might have been born earlier in the year before the records began in 1855

What was the younger Jane's husband's name and occupation?

If this were my family, the next things I'd do would be:
1. track down death records for the older Jane and for James.
1a. ditto on the younger Jane's death record, if you don't have it already. While marriage records are likely to be more reliable than death records on parents' names, it is worth double checking. I say this as someone whose grandmother listed the wrong parents for her grandfather on their cert. and whose great-grandfather gave a wrong maiden name for his mother on his marriage record.

2. Search the OPRs for James & Jane's marriage.

3. Look for any siblings for the younger Jane. OPRs, post-1855 records, census, and so on. If you find one or more, it might help find them on earlier census returns and/or have clues in the names chosen.

BJ

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:10 am

gmg wrote:Ohhh! I'd forgotten about these McCallums!

Annette
I don't think the Portpatrick one is her as her MC says mum was Jane Kennedy.

I'd forgotten about this family in Penninghamme - came across them way back and discounted them because I couldn't see where they fitted in. There is another John McCallum who is Headmaster of the school in Kirkcowan in 1871. This is the one who was Registrar!

I hope this is not another of these complicated ones where the child was brought up by her grandparents as their own and put their names on the MC!

That was my thoughts at first but the father's name was Malcolm and there doesn't appear to be a James or Jane in the family.
The other John (the registrar) living in the schoolhouse in 1881 was born in Girvan, father's name Hugh.

On marriage entries of a couple of mine who were illegitimate there were various permutations of parents names none of which were correct.

This is why I thought the Jane McCallum born in Portpatrick was interesting although Portpatrick doesn't sound right.

The other thought is that the parents were married in Ireland.

No help at all I'm afraid.

Hopefully someone else can come up with something more positive.

Regards,
Annette M

Don't know what's happening with my font - never touched a thing - honest.

font put back to normal - AndrewP

Post by **SarahND** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:58 pm

Hi Jen,
This family looks promising:

1861
Cairntop, Girvan, Ayrshire
Jame McHallam, 45, Head, born in Ireland, Road Labourer
Jane McHallam, 30, Wife, born Kirkcowan, Wigton Shire, Road Labourer Wife
Jane McHallam, 9, born Kirkcowan, Wigton Shire
Ann McHallam, 6, born Glenluce, Wigton Shire
John McHallam, 3, born Girvan Ayrshire

Regards,
Sarah

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:26 pm

SarahND wrote:Hi Jen,
This family looks promising:

1861
Cairntop, Girvan, Ayrshire
Jame McHallam, 45, Head, born in Ireland, Road Labourer
Jane McHallam, 30, Wife, born Kirkcowan, Wigton Shire, Road Labourer Wife
Jane McHallam, 9, born Kirkcowan, Wigton Shire
Ann McHallam, 6, born Glenluce, Wigton Shire
John McHallam, 3, born Girvan Ayrshire

Regards,
Sarah

Yeahhhh

-Well done Sarah-

JOHN MCHALLUM Pedigree
Male

Birth: 26 AUG 1857 Girvan, Ayr, Scotland

Parents:
Father: JAMES MCHALLUM Family
Mother: JANE KENNEDY

Later...............Looks like James died in Girvan in 1863.
Kind regards,
Annette M

Post by **SarahND** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:03 pm

nelmit wrote: Later...............Looks like James died in Girvan in 1863.

Nice find, Annette!

Could this be James in 1851? The Kennedy connection is suggestive, although Jane isn't there...

1851
Balminnoch, Kirkcowan, Wigtownshire
William Kennedy, 31, Head, born Colmonell, Ayrshire, Gamekeeper
Anna Kennedy, 26, born Kirkcowan, Wigtownshire, Gamekeeper's Wife
William Kennedy, 3, Son, born Kirkcowan, Wigtownshire
Jean Kennedy, 5 Mo, Daughter, born Kirkcowan Wigtownshire
Agness McCulloch, 13, Servant, born New Luce, Wigtownshire, House Servant
Jean Love, 22, Daughter, born Girvan, Ayrshire, Farmer's Daughter (100 Acres Employing 5 Labres)
Margaret Love, 20, Daughter, born Girvan, Ayrshire, Farmer's Daughter
John Love, 17, Son, born Girvan, Ayrshire, Farmer's Son
William Twiner, 58, Servant, born Colmonell, Ayrshire, Dike Builder
James McHallam, 33, Servant, born Ireland, Farm Labourer
Henry Parker, 17, Servant, born Ireland, Farm Labourer

Regards,
Sarah

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:36 pm

Hi Sarah,

I have no doubt this is James although he's working for the Love family, neighbours of William Kennedy.

Jane is proving to be much more elusive in 1851.

Regards,
Annette M

gmg · Post by **gmg** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:07 pm

Hey! everyone!!
Wow fantastic!

This is looking so good! Jane McCallum's father was indeed a roadman (ref MC) and her daughter Annie also married a roadman. Also, family folklore says there was an Irish connection - I thought that it was on another line but perhaps it was this one as I have't found it elsewnere.

The birth record for John confirms the Kennedy link which I have always felt was there somewhere. Also Jane jnr named her child Ann after her sister (this is a recurring theme in our family).

I think the James in 1851 is the right one. William and Anna Kennedy could not have been Jane's parents as they are too young - Jane would have been 20yrs old then. Perhaps William was her brother.

I think Jane would have been in service somewhere nearby - I wonder if the estate where William was a gamekeeper had a 'big house' with servants?

I have had no luck finding Jane Kennedy's death record which might give her parents name. However I have been looking for her in Wigtownshire not Ayrshire.
I also need to re- search Jane McCallum's birth for 1852c and perhaps under McHallam

You all have been such a help as I've been stuck on this for ages and had given up hope of moving on with this.
Thank you.

Jen

killearnan · Post by **killearnan** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:48 pm

gmg wrote:Hey! everyone!!
I have had no luck finding Jane Kennedy's death record which might give her parents name. However I have been looking for her in Wigtownshire not Ayrshire.
I also need to re- search Jane McCallum's birth for 1852c and perhaps under McHallam.

Jen,

Don't forget to look for Ann's birth, which may well have been in that 'magic' year 1855, if she was 6 in 1851.

John's birth a couple years later is likely to have less information (as less was asked for) but it is probably also worth looking - for example, more than once, I've found a new connection (or helped confirm a hunch) based on who witnessed/registered an event. Could turn out to be one of Jane's parents or a sibling......not as likely as one of the parents doing the registration but enough of a chance that it's worth a dollar/pound or three, even for a thrifty Scots/Yankee like me.

One or both of the siblings' birth records should list when/where James and Jane were married. Of course, if your ancestors were like some of mine, that information will vary on the different certificates.

BJ

gmg · Post by **gmg** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:45 am

Hi everyone
I really thought we'd cracked this one and have been searching with renewed enthusiasm on SP. However it is proving mightily frustrating!

I am certain that James McHallam (road labourer, on 1851cen) is the right James. His ROD in 1863 (Girvan) shows he was married to Jane Kennedy and the 1861 cen shows they had a daughter Jane.

My Jane McCallum had parents James (roadman) and Jane Kennedy as shown on her ROM.
But - I can get no further!!

No ROD for a Jane McHallam/Hallum/Callum widow of James MCHallam.

No ROB for Jane McHallam/etc from 1849 - 1855 in Wigtownshire or Ayrshire - with the right parents.

No ROM for James McHallam & Jane Kennedy from 1851 - 1857.

I have tried all combinations of spellings to no avail!! Looks like the mystery remains!

killearnan · Post by **killearnan** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:10 pm

Jen,

I'm going to sound like a broken record

but here goes:

SIBLINGS. They aren't always a solution to brickwalls but ignoring known siblings tends to be a mistake (the voice of experience speaking here......

). I've found new information or confirmed hunches about actual relationships from siblings' records.

Have you looked for the siblings of the Jane b. about 1851?

If Ann was born in 1855, her birth record should include parents' birthplaces and date/place of marriage, as well as how many children her mother had given birth to and how many were alive at the time of registration.

John's birth record should at least list when & where James and the elder Jane were married.

I'd also look for marriage (hints about religious affiliation) and death records for Ann and John. You never know when a registrant/witness will provide clues as to other family.

Even if it turns out that there isn't much new information, you can start tracking where the family lived at the time of each event, which helps build an overall picture of the family.

And as a reminder: for events before 1 Jan 1855, the on-line records are pretty much only for Church of Scotland events. If people were either Catholic (like some of mine) or one of the break-off Presbyterian churches (Free Church, etc., like others of mine), they likely didn't go to the local CoS church to record anything, so those records aren't part of the on-line/indexed OPRs. Some non-CoS records do survive but they aren't on-line yet.

BJ