scot family of ancrum

Birth, Marriage, Death

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SarahND
Site Admin
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Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Post by SarahND » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:44 pm

Hi Lesley,
I think William's age is a typo in 1881. In 1871 he is 41, and in 1861 he is 31, so the "2" in 1881 must really be a "5". However... he is not William Morrison, but William Scott. :shock: called "son" to Charles in the earlier censuses.
Helen is consistently called "Scott" also. I can't tell from the Ancestry transcription if she is ever married or not, but perhaps she never did get married. The children are all Morrisons and there is never any sign of their father.

Charles birth, for example, is in the IGI under Charles Morrison Scott and only his mother, Helen Scott is listed.

The plot thickens...
Sarah

trishj
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:42 pm
Location: wales

Post by trishj » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:21 pm

hi, all.
Thank you all for this, but when i clicked on the morrison children it stated the mother was helen (1881 census) as i am on ancestry we cannot get the whole census up only the names of people age and where they lived so i did not know if helen was married or not. that is why i posted the question asking if they used married names in your census records.
I think i need to say that this charles looks as if he could be the brother of my 6 x grandfather.
thank you all for your help and advice. it was very much needed and appreciated. :wink: :)

JoeDuffy
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:33 pm
Location: Perth

Re: scot family of ancrum

Post by JoeDuffy » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:40 pm

I know this is an old thread but I found my way here via Google when researching this murder case. Yes, murder case! :shock:

Charles Scott was accused of murdering his wife Helen (nee Morris) in 1866 during a drunken fight at their house in Guthrie's Close, KIrkgate, Perth where they lived with their son William. William was also attacked by the father earlier that night.

They also had a daughter, Helen also, who lived in the Craigie district of Perth.

I'm not related to anyone in this case, I just live in Perth which is why I'm interested in the case after reading a bit about it in a book.

Currie
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: scot family of ancrum

Post by Currie » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:09 am

Hello Joe, and Welcome to TalkingScot.

We get the occasional murder, or alleged murder, here at TS, but I’m not sure whether we’ve yet had a hanging. There wasn’t one in this case either.

The Court hearing was reported in great detail, including much family information, in the Dundee Courier & Argus, on Wednesday, September 19, 1866. There were almost four full columns of it.

After 20 minutes deliberation the Jury found, by a great majority, that the charge was not proven.

All the best,
Alan

JoeDuffy
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:33 pm
Location: Perth

Re: scot family of ancrum

Post by JoeDuffy » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:55 am

Thanks Alan, when I saw above that Charles had died in 1884 I guessed he'd either been found not guilty/not proven or had been convicted on a lesser charge and escaped the noose.

I will get the newspaper report from the Britsh Newspaper Archives to get the full story.

I also note from some of the posts above that some of the family had dropped the Scott surname and went for Morrison instead of Morris which was Helen's maiden name. I assume this was to distance themselves from the murder case.

Currie
Posts: 3924
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: scot family of ancrum

Post by Currie » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:56 am

That's okay Joe,

I’ll post a couple of segments that contain family information in case they come in handy later. This represents less than about 10% of the whole report.


“Wm. Scott, ropespinner, deponed—The prisoner is my father. I lived with him in the month of April last. The house entered from Guthrie's Close. It is up one stair, and consists of four rooms. There is a room and a closet on the right hand side, and a room and closet on the left hand side. My father and mother and two children—one boy about five years of age, named Wm. Morrison, son of my sister Helen Scott, and a girl, four years, Agnes Isdale, daughter of my sister Agnes—slept in the kitchen to the right from the top of the stair. Occasionally some of the children slept with them, and sometimes they slept with me. I slept in a room on the left hand side. ………….”


At Perth, 11th April, 1866, in presence of Hugh Barclay Esq., Sheriff-Substitute of Perthshire, compeared the prisoner, who, being duly cautioned and examined, declares:—My name is Charles Scott and I am a labourer in the tanyard of Messrs. Murdoch. Mill Street, Perth, and reside in the Kirkgate, Perth, am aged sixty one years. I have been married thirty-seven years past. My wife's name was Helen Morris. My wife has born me twelve children, seven of whom are dead. The only one of my family who resided with us was my son William, who is a ropespinner, and is aged thirty-seven years. In late years my wife whiles has been given to drinking spirits, and I have occasionally indulged in that way myself. I left work on Saturday last at two o'clock afternoon. I went home betwixt two and three o'clock with my wages, and then went out again. I got no dinner. My wife was in the house when I first went in, and she went out to buy some things. I left before she returned, and came back after, but she had not returned, and I then went out and wandered the streets in search of her. I returned about ten o'clock, and found my wife was then in. I had not been drinking strong drink in the interval, and I took home some provisions for Sunday. I found my wife lying on the floor at the foot of the bed beside a little chair and a pail. She was bleeding a little from the back of her head, and I lifted her and put her into bed. I saw blood coming through the cap which was on her head. I put her into bed with her clothes on. I did this without any assistance. I then went into the same bed, a grandchild being between my wife and myself. My grandchild's name is Agnes Isdaile, being about three years of age. My wife's head was towards the door of the closet, and her feet towards the fireplace, when I so found her lying on the floor. There were some marks of blood, but not much where her head was lying. The next thing I saw in the morning, about seven o'clock, was my wife sitting on the floor in front of the bed with blankets about her. I thought she was sleeping there, and spoke to her, but I afterwards discovered that she was dead. I then wakened my son William who was in the other end of the house. He and I lifted my wife into the bed. Her cap was off, and I saw that she had a wound on her head. I did not see much blood on the floor, but I saw papers and clothes which she seemed to have had at her head. I then went to one of my daughters at Coburg Place, and then to another at Craigie Park. I then went to the Police Office, about 8 or 9 o'clock, and I there gave information of the death of my wife. When I first found my wife on the floor I knew she had been drinking. I was not the worse of drink before I went home about ten o'clock and so found my wife on the floor. I was in the house about eight o'clock, and I found my wife in. I asked her where the articles were that she was to buy. She made me no answer, and I went out to buy the provisions for next day. When I saw my wife about eight o’clock she was standing. I either thought that she was incapable of going out to buy the things or would not do so, and she gave me the money to do so. I did not strike or kick my wife in any way. I think she got the cut in her head by falling on the little chair or the pail. I had no words with my wife that night, I observed that night that she had been tasting, but she was not so drunk as I have seen her. When I was in the house at eight o'clock tho police brought up my son William in a state of intoxication, and put him to bed in the east end of the house, and I had some words with him as to what he had done with his money. I did not strike my son.
(Signed) Charles Scott. Hugh Barclay.

Alan