Carrigan birth entries confusion

[maggbill]

Hi WilmaM
thank you very much for your reply. As I mentioned I find Lily with parents John and Ellen(Helen) in 1881 and 1891 census.

25 April 1899, aged 18/19 she marries James Toll (Toal), (her name is listed under COrrigan this time) (living in Ravel Row Glasgow); James who was a coalminer, dies in 1922, and she remarries a James Tracey (name back to CArrigan this time), still in the Camlachie/Calton area of Glasgow; We then have a record of Lily's death - 1960, (No image viewed) - "Lily Tracey - other surnames, Corrigan, Toll, age 79 in Provan Glasgow."

So the census details i.e. born abt 1880- 1881 Lanarkshire, Glasgow, to John Carrigan and Ellen (Helen) (ms Kennedy).... all link up..... but where oh where are the birth records?

Oh yes, another idiosyncrasy - her first marriage to James Toll (or Toal) = she is actually listed as "Elizabeth Corrigan"... not Lily - weird... We had already tried the option of Lily = Elizabeth (and many other variations).. but she has an older sibling named Elizabeth who was married in 1887 to a Patrick Reilly... we are sure that the person marrying James Toll is our Lily, but think it could just have been a Registrar's mistake that she is listed as Elizabeth?... Her sister (older by 13 years) was off having 9 children of her own... not her... and yet the brides parents John and Ellen named in the James Toll certificate are the right ones we are looking for..... I have even thought, - could Lily be Elizabeth's child?? born to the 13 year old? and not registered birth? too weird for words? Too confusing? (Lily is really an unusual name for this family too... doesn't appear anywhere in the many many children of various family....)

The mystery continues ?
Cheers
Maggie

[maggbill]

Sorry WilmaM

I had another thought, Lily also had another older sister... Mary Carrigan (Kerrigan, Kergan, Kirgan etc)... born 13 May 1862 in "Landward, New Monkland, Lanark"... while father was coal miner... and interestingly we haven't found a death or marriage for her yet either??? the plot thickens???

It really is a detective story eh?

Cheers
Maggie

[WilmaM]

It's not unusual for a grandchild to be simply 'absorbed' into the family and the child never knows any parents besides her 'grandparents'.

Is it possible, age-wise, for Ellen to be her mother?

With such a difficult name as Corrigan [complete with Irish accent ] it's not going to be easy to track them down, considering the fact that illegitimate children were often born away from home, in this case even back to Ireland, and could be registered under several different variations, or eveen the father's name.

A difficult one...

[nelmit]

Another thought ..............Can't find anything for Lily but I did find an Elizabeth Carrigan born 1882.

Regards,
Annette

Did you have a look at this one ?

Regards,
Annette

[maggbill]

Hi again WilmaM and Nelmit,

Yes, agewise Ellen (listed in census as Lily's mother) would have been about 41 or thereabouts, so still childbearing age... we have no record of children between Lily and the closest sibling Elizabeth, 13 years before? ??

Thanks also for comment Nelmit, but our "Lily Carrigan" ? Elizabeth - was already mentioned in the 1881 census as being ?9 months old.... The Elizabeth Carrigan you saw in 1882 - illegit... mother Bridget? I had previous looked at it, and discounted it... born after 1881 census...

Oh well, it may be one of those which we never solve. But thanks again for your efforts. Absolutely great help from everyone.

Maggie

[maggbill]

Hi there friends,

A month has gone past, and there is still a mystery surrounding two or three of my Carrigan ancestors.

In particular, Mary Carrigan (Kerrigan, Kirgan etc) born 13 May 1862, appears age 7 in 1871 census living with family in Uphall West Lothian, only to disappear, and never seen again - no marriage? no death?....

And her much younger sibling Lily Carrigan, (Corrigan, etc.)... who we can find loads of info for - two marriages, census, death etc with name Lily ... but fail totally to find her birth entry, which was about 1880/81 in Glasgow.

Today we have found further info from census etc. which name her on 2 or 3 occasions as Elizabeth not Lily... but we are still failing to find her birth under either "Elizabeth or "Lily".

But if in fact her name is "Elizabeth" Carrigan, - why does she have an older (by 14 years), sister also named Elizabeth? Why would the mother Ellen, name two children - both surviving into mature age - with the same name?? Is this "Lily/Elizabeth" - in fact definitely not Ellen's child? We doubt that she could be the daughter of her "Sister" Elizabeth, cos her sister in fact went on to have 9 children of her own - calling HER oldest child Elizabeth !!

Could "Lily/Elizabeth" be the child of yet another sibling - born illegitimately ? under who knows what name - and then brought up by grandparents?

Too confusing? any more thoughts anyone - on ?illegitimate children - or are we just "barking up the wrong tree"?
Cheers
Maggie

[nelmit]

You've maybe tried this but a search only in 1880 for Elizabeth *i*g*n gives only 14 matches at Lanarkshire on SP. One of these is definitely Corrigan but I'm afraid I don't have enough credits to look at the index for the rest. Might be worth a credit just in case anything looks likely.

Regards,
Annette

[maggbill]

HI Annette,

thanks for that suggestion - I had already viewed this Elizabeth Corrigan, she is illegitimate - born in Eastwood - Pollokshaws.. mother Annie, and an RCE which names the father as ? Higgins.... It really does not seem to be any connection.... pity the birth entries don't give more info... oh well.. who knows, just when you feel like giving up, sometimes something just clicks... but this has certainly been one of the hardest ones to research yet.

Cheers and thanks again
Maggie

[TS1901]

Hello,

Just joined and probably 4 years too late to join in on this one!

Maggie, your post caught my eye and I have sent you a PM regarding Lily Carrigan.

[StewL]

Hello TS1901

Never too late to join a thread on TS.
Messages would have been sent to those who participated in original.
If they still have same email address they will receive them.