Appeal for Examples.......

Birth, Marriage, Death

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IanS
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:47 pm

Post by IanS » Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:22 pm

Hi David,

1873 Jessie Campbell-Duncan McKenzie-Bothkennar-473/00 0016
Used maiden name only, but states she was a widow. (She reg.
first husband death as wife.)

1881 Jessie Campbell (Mckenzie) -George Strathie -Falkirk
Landward- 479/02 0031
Indexed under both.

First married(?) name of Murchison was never used on either cert. though she was known by this name for years, but dates of marriage on Murchison childrens birth certs differ ever so slightly :roll:

Guest

Post by Guest » Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:38 pm

Hi David,
RD 644/10 September 17, 1920 District of Blythswood, Glasgow
John H. Galbraith married Agnes McNutt - widow
[ms O'Donnell]
Catherine

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:54 pm

Wow !!

What can I say but a massive thanks to all....... over the next couple of days I'd hoped for a trickle of examples, but I have all I need inside a couple of hours .........

Analysis to follow.

Many thanks.

David

PS No more examples needed, thanks.

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:55 pm

winslowsmom wrote:Mary Wilson married Peter Grant 11 Apr 1862 in Ayr

Widow Mary Wilson married Wm Christie in Apr 1877 Newton, Ayr
(that date is from a BC, I don't have the MC)
1879 actually !

Thanks

David

AndrewP
Site Admin
Posts: 6189
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Edinburgh

Post by AndrewP » Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:56 pm

Hi David,

Another group of widowers remarrying.

Jane Archibald - 1878 - Slamannan (489) - entry 34
maiden surname = Archibald
(first previous marriage = Robertson, second previous marriage = Gourlay)

Helen Paterson - 1890 - Kilsyth (483) - entry 20
maiden surname = Paterson
(previous marriage = Crawford)

Agnes Danks or Temple - 1893 - Glasgow (Kelvin) (644/9) - entry 204
both surnames

Catherine King - 1902 - Glasgow (Dennistoun) (644/3) - entry 520
previous marriage = King
(maiden surname = Whiggam / Wiggam / Whigham)

Annie Foley - 1906 - Uphall (672) - entry 51
previous marriage = Foley
(maiden surname = Paterson)

Ann Clark Hamilton or Nummey - 1926 Glasgow (Blythswood) (644/10) - entry 2096
both surnames

Isabella Scott Telfer or Todd - 1926 - Ratho (698a) - entry 5
both Surnames

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:18 pm

Hi David

1892 CURRIE JOSEPH PARKER JANET CALTON LANARK 644/04 0036
Janet's maiden name is Parker, but is on marriage to Joseph Currie as McCulloch, her surname from her first marriage to Edward McCulloch 1872 Tradeston.

1901 MOFFAT ANDREW SKINNER JESSIE GOVAN LANARK 646/02 0215
Jessie was first married to Adam Cochrane:
1895 COCHRANE ADAM SKINNER JESSIE ANN GOVAN LANARK 646/02 0172


1903 MAGILL JOSEPH MCCULLOCH CATHERINE MID CALDER MIDLOTHIAN 694/00 0010
Catherine's previous marriage:
1877 WIGHTMAN DAVID MCCULLOCH CATHERINE CRAWFORDJOHN LANARK 636/00 00

Catherine Graham. 2nd marriage to James Wood
1921 WOOD JAMES GRAHAM CATHERINE FEARN ROSS AND CROMARTY 064/00 0003
First marriage to Kenneth McKenzie Nemes
1902 MEMES KENNETH GRAHAM CATHERINE TAIN ROSS AND CROMARTY 082/00 0004

Best wishes
Lesley
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:44 pm

The question that I was looking to answer was what was the indexing practice when a widow remarrying used her previous married name. While I had my strong suspicions from experience, I couldn’t find confirmation of this in any of my usual sources, and had only a small sample immediately to hand.

In other words, I’m not just interested in this context in the information that appears in the register entry, but how this information is indexed, as that’s what we search on.

Apologies if I didn’t make it fully clear that it was only post 1854 such second or subsequent marriages that were of interest.

From all the examples kindly provided, I’m now confident that the situation was as follows:

1. The widow used her previous married surname, or, if a third or subsequent marriage, a married surname; then there is an index entry for the marriage under both that surname and her maiden name, i.e. the indexer took the time and trouble to extract the maiden surname from the parental information.

2. The widow used her maiden name, in which can there could only be an entry under that surname. A significant proportion of widows appear to have used their maiden name, and there are quite a few examples where someone known to the researcher to be a widow described herself as a spinster!

Given other exceptions in the register entries and the indexes in the period from 1856 until the situation stabilised in the late 1850s or early 1860s I suspect that there might be exceptions in that period, but would obviously need some samples from that period to be sure.

An interesting, and very obvious aspect with the benefit of hindsight (as always 20:20!) came out of the situation, deriving from the different situation in relation to the marriage registration process compared with the birth and death registration processes. For a regular marriage the couple didn’t turn up at the registrar’s office, before 1939 that is; the process being that the minister or celebrant filled in a schedule provided by the registrar; this schedule (they still exist at NRH, but can only be accessed if a legal need can be demonstrated) was then taken into the registrar who transcribed the details from the schedule into the marriage register.

As could be expected, very few widows signed the schedule as “Jean SMITH or BROWN”, so that the signature normally uses the maiden or married surname.

However, if the bride couldn’t sign her name and made a mark, then it appears to be the case that there was often the entry under the mark, - Jean SMITH or BROWN. It might well be the case that if it was a third marriage that the entry would be then Jean SMITH, formerly CLARK, or BROWN.

Obviously this depends on the celebrant being aware of a previous marriage. I’d imagine that most couples would be open and honest about the situation, as long as the correct questions were asked, but if they weren’t, or the fact of a previous marriage wasn’t disclosed for whatever reason, then the celebrant couldn’t enter the appropriate information on the schedule, and there wouldn’t be the appropriate index entry.

For irregular marriages, by Sheriff’s Warrant or other such routes to arrive at an entry in the register of marriages, I’d anticipate that the situation might be similar…. Anybody got any examples ?? :wink:

Can anyone think of any quirks or aspects of the system that I haven’t covered? Comments greatly appreciated.

In incidentally, I’m not interested in this context in the situation that pertained after the Marriage (Scotland) Act 1939.

Very many thanks for the quite fantastic and speedy response :!:

David

JustJean
Posts: 2520
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
Location: Maine USA

Post by JustJean » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:57 pm

:shock: Phew...I'm exhausted......

and just in case you never got to looking at my email of 4 samples....one of them is a marriage by sherriff's warrant....Joan Reid Hamilton to Daniel Thompson 1921.....

Joan Reid parents were Adam Reid and Elizabeth Nelson

She M1 David Hamilton

She M2 Daniel Thompson 2 Nov 1921 in Edinburgh

Joan died 16 Feb 1927 age 35 Prestonpans

................hope this helps but to be honest I couldn't say.....

Jean

AndrewP
Site Admin
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Location: Edinburgh

Post by AndrewP » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:58 pm

Hi David,

From my two lots above, the following three were marriages by warrant ...

Jeanie West - 1921 - Glasgow (Blythswood) (644/10) - entry 129
previous married surname
Birth certificate: Jane Parker

Elizabeth Hutchison or Hutchison - 1938 - Edinburgh (St Giles) (685/4) - entry 1151
both surnames (born Hutchison, 1st time married Hutchison)

Ann Clark Hamilton or Nummey - 1926 Glasgow (Blythswood) (644/10) - entry 2096
both surnames

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:03 pm

JustJean wrote::shock: Phew...I'm exhausted......
Why?, might one enquire :?: :shock:
JustJean wrote::and just in case you never got to looking at my email of 4 samples....one of them is a marriage by sherriff's warrant....Joan Reid Hamilton to Daniel Thompson 1921.....Jean
Hmmmm...... most interesting, thanks, as she is only shown as "Jean HAMILTON" and not "Jean HAMILTON or REID", but still indexed under bolth surnames.

David