Help with James Muir Death Certificate

[LesleyB]

Hi David

I'm not convinced that the capital letter is "N", - look at the "W" in Widower on this entry and Widow on an entry above.........

I see what you mean, but its the descender from "Margaret" that confuses the shape of the (rather oddly formed) letter. I still think its an N...
not that it helps much.

Best wishes
Lesley

[DavidWW]

.......much snipped..........

So I have been busy this morning on SP, still looking for 2nd marriage of Richard to Catherine Smith ?

....snipped.......

I suspect that the second marriage was irregular ...............

BTW is there a death register entry for Margaret DURHAM ?

David

[Jack]

Hi Linda,

Have you looked at the 1862 Govan DC on the off-chance?
Margaret MUIR / CAMPBELL - no age in index; don't know which, if any, is a maiden name.

Jack

[Linda Malpass]

.......much snipped..........

So I have been busy this morning on SP, still looking for 2nd marriage of Richard to Catherine Smith ?

....snipped.......

I suspect that the second marriage was irregular ...............

BTW is there a death register entry for Margaret DURHAM ?

David

David, what do you mean a irregular marriage? I did find Catherine Smith living with Richard Muir in the 1871 census, she was the housekeeper

Also got Margaret Durham death, Sept 12, 1865, sister in law, Susan McCracken was the informant and present.

But of course this Margaret N or W ?? on James Muir death certificate has thrown me off when all informants have listed her as Margaret ms Campbell, as his wife, not even close!!

[Linda Malpass]

Hi Linda,

Have you looked at the 1862 Govan DC on the off-chance?
Margaret MUIR / CAMPBELL - no age in index; don't know which, if any, is a maiden name.

Jack

Thanks Jack, I had looked at that, she married David Campbell and her parents were Matthew Muir and Susan, ms Winter ....... wrong again

[DavidWW]

David, what do you mean a irregular marriage? I did find Catherine Smith living with Richard Muir in the 1871 census, she was the housekeeper ......snipped.....

Indeed

See http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... bit+repute

David

[Jack]

Hi Linda,
Some censuses, i know you already have some of them; just to keep them together.
Interesting that the family are all as b Inch in 1851, and the possible Richard too.
Seems they most probably lived there around the 1840s.
A wee bit of a jump with James' & Margaret's ages from 1851 to 1861 IF the same family.
--
1851 cens 611 (508) Ed 6 p 14 (Riccarton)
Sornhill Village.
/ James MUIRE [sic], head, marr, 51, labourer, b Inch, WIG [sic]
Margaret MUIRE, wife, marr, 53, ------------- b Inch, WIG
Mary Jane MUIRE, daur, 15, ----------------- b Inch, WIG
Thomas MUIRE, son, 8, scholar, ----------- b Inch, WIG
James MUIRE, Gr-son, 3, ------------------ b Inch, WIG
/ Margaret LEASE, head, widow, 60, pauper, stocking weaver, b Galston, AYR
/ John McCRACKEN, head, marr, 29, labourer, b Inch, WIG
Shusan [sic] McCRACKEN, wife, marr, 19, --- b Inch, WIG [sic]
Alexander McCRACKEN, son, 2, ------------- b Riccarton, AYR
--
1861 Cens 611 Ed 7 p 9 (Riccarton)
Sornhill Village.
James MUIR, head, marr, 70, drainer, b Ireland
Margaret MUIR, wife, marr, 72, ------- b Ireland
John MUIR, Gr-son, 6, ----------------- b Riccarton, AYR
John MUIR, Gr-son, 5, --------------- b Cumnock, AYR
George MUIR, Gr-son, 5,----------- b Cumnock, AYR
--
1861 cens 611 Ed 3 p 10 (Riccarton)
20 Dollars Row.
John McCRACKEN, head, marr, 42, coal miner, b Inch, WIG
Susan McCRACKEN, wife, marr, 31, --------- b Ireland
Alexander McCRACKEN, son, 12, coal miner, b Riccarton, AYR
James McCRACKEN, son, 10, scholar, b Riccarton, AYR
Margaret McCRACKEN, daur, 8, scholar, b Galston, AYR
Jean McCRACKEN, daur, 5, -------------- b Riccarton, AYR
Thomas MUIR, relative, --, 18, coal miner, b Inch, WIG
--
1851 cens 611 (508) Ed 6 p 11 (Riccarton)
Sornhill. [a farm name]
Robert HAMILTON, head, u/m 21, farmer of 70 acres, b Riccarton, AYR
William HOWAT, servant, u/m 20, farm servant, b Riccarton, AYR
Richard MAIR [sic], servant, 13, farm servant, b Inch, WIG
Jean FINDLAY, servant, u/m 30, dairy maid, b Old Cumnock, AYR
Janet McCULLOCH, servant, u/m 18, house servant, b Old Cumnock, AYR
[there is also a 10yr old Richard Muir in 1851, b Kilmarnock; a G-son of Elizabeth Lang,
he is possibly in Rutherglen aged 41 (as a coal miner) 1881 with wife Margaret McCann?]
--
1861 cens 597 ed 23 p 6 (Kilmarnock)
22 St. Marnock Street.
Jane BAIRD, head, widow, 60, seamstress, b Kilmarnock, AYR
Richard MUIR, lodger, u/m 22, house carpenter, b Riccarton, AYR
--
1881 Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 33 Hamilton St
Source: FHL Film 0203686 GRO Ref Volume 646-1 EnumDist 35 Page 23
Richard MUIR M 40 M Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Joiner
Catherine MUIR M 32 F England Rel: Wife
James MUIR U18 M Ayr, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Riveter
John MUIR 13 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Scholar
Thomas MUIR 2 M Govan, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Son
[Thomas' BC should say when / where his parents married - ie if they were]
==
Jack

[Linda Malpass]

Hi Jack, Thank you very much for all the work you did on compiling the census I do have the 1851 and 1861 Ayrshire census on cd, index only, so it was good to see the details on the 1851. It is interesting about the Muir family being born in Inch, although on future census, the parents list Ireland, and daughter Susan (b abt 1830) as well, I believe in the late 1830s to 1840s they did live in Inch, William and Thomas have indicated Inch as place of birth on some census images. Susan's husband, John McCracken was born in Inch and they married 1848 in Riccarton. Hopefully when the 1841 census comes online, I can look for the Muirs and McCrackens in Inch

Yes you are right there is quite a bit of age difference between 1851 and 1861 with James Muir and Margaret, but they are the same family. I looked at the births of their grandsons, John and George, born Cumnock and came away with another son, William Muir, b abt 1836 Inch

Its been hard to keep track of the Muirs, the children all seemed to go in different directions, I have been unable to trace Mary Jane Muir who was 15yrs in the 1851 census

I think you have hit it right on with Richard Muir in the 1851 and 1861 census. Like David said there is no record for the marriage of Catherine Smith to Richard Muir, I did get the bc of Thomas Muir, b 1878, Govan, (illigitimate) to Catherine Smith, Housekeeper, and formerly Sewing Machinist and Richard Muir, informant, C Smith, mother and Richard Muir, father.

Still pulling my hair out looking for Margaret Muir's (ms Campbell) death, I don't know what I am doing wrong, any hints would be most welcome with the 10 age difference in the earlier census, it is difficult to pin down her age, I have left the age field blank, cross referenced with Campbell, used just Muir, tried just M* for Margaret. I believe she died between 1861 and 1873 when her husband James died, stating his age as 80 and Widower. In the 1871 Census, James is living in Neephill, Kilmarnock with his daughter Susan and states he is 79 yrs and a widower.

A big Thank You to everyone who has replied and helped me the Muirs

[b1b2j3]

[quote="Linda Malpass"]Need help with Maiden name of James Muir's wife ...... Margaret ??
also under cause of death, it says "no medical attendant ???? can't make out the next word.

I read it as McLeod. Sorry to confuse even more.

[Linda Malpass]

I never did figure out that spelling on Margarets maiden name on the death of her husband, James Muir. However I did eventually get Margaret Muirs death certificate, her parents were Bernard Knox and Bridget Campbell. Some of the Muir children listed Margarets maiden name as Campbell, so there is the confusion.

I got the 1841 census on the Muirs, living in Inch, Wigtownshire, this opened up a whole new picture on this family.

Extracted 1841 Census, Parish of Inch, Wigtownshire, Living next to William McCracken family
Address: Burnultoch

James Moore, 39yrs Ag Lab, born Ireland
Margaret, 40 yrs, born Ireland
Mark, 17yrs, Ag Lab, born Ireland
Margaret, 15yrs, born Ireland
Susannna, 13yrs, born Ireland
James, 11yrs, born Ireland
William, 9yrs, born Ireland
Mary, 6yrs, born Ireland
Richard, 4yrs, born Ireland
Peter, 1yr, born Ireland

Susanna Muir is my gg grandmother, she married John McCracken, 1848 Riccarton, Ayr.

I have discovered that Mark Muir emigrated to Balarrat, Australia, 1857 on the ship Medway with his family .... I understand the gold rush was on! On the 1851 census he had a brother John living with him, I managed to get his marriage to Agnes Wood in Old Cumnock and John stated his parents as James Muir and Margaret, ms Knox ...

I am currently working on another brother, James Muir who I think married Ann Dunsmuir, 1854 in Auchinleck, they also left for NSW, Australia, I am hoping that James parents will be mentioned on his marriage certificate, but I am pretty certain I have the right James Muir.

I never thought I would get this far with the Muirs, its been a fascinating journey