Unable to find dc for Isaac RIEMER 1896

[joette]

Is this one of their children?
1894 RIEMER JACOB M-Gorbals-GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/12 0557.

I have been trying to say Isaac Reimer in a heavily accented voice to see if I could approximate what the Registrar may have heard & the fact she could not read/write in English.
Was it possible the death may not have been registered?
I am thinking religious Jews aim to be buried ASAP so perhaps their burials would have been possible without death certificate? Maybe something from the Dr & in the trauma of being widowed whilst pregnant the Death was never recorded?
Would the local Synagogue hold death records? If they were following their religion.

[Montrose Budie]

Is this one of their children?
1894 RIEMER JACOB M-Gorbals-GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/12 0557.

Indeed, his parents were Isaac REIMER and Jeanie FISH, but the puir wee soul died of meningitis at the age of 5 months.

Was it possible the death may not have been registered?

Most unlikely !

mb

[Montrose Budie]

.....much snipped...................

I take your point about the misrepresentation and will not dismiss that possibility. Since Jane has signed with her mark on the birth certificate of Agnes there is a good chance that she omitted to tell the registrar.

That's the way that I'm thinking !!...........

Thank you so much for your help, mb.

Carole

My pleasure !!

Orraverybest.

PS On the register entries for wee Jacob, if you didn't know that it should be a capital 'R' you could easily read a capital 'B', but a (wildcard) search on that basis still doesn't find a death record ..................................
mb

[casserole]

Hello Joette,

Yes, Jacob was one of their children. He was one of the four who died in infancy.

It IS possible that the death was not registered, I suppose, but some years ago I was in touch with Harvey Kaplan of the Scottish Jewish Archives and he searched their database and found no mention of him. They have a database of burials and he said that if the family were so poor that htey couldn't afford a burial then the community would have done so. He would have expected him to appear on one of the cemetery lists.

He suggested Craigton or Janefield but he has those. The four children of Isaac and Jane were buried at Craigton and I have the details.

Again, he suggests that the name may have been mis-spelt - oh, joy!!!

Carole

[nelmit]

I have been trying to say Isaac Reimer in a heavily accented voice to see if I could approximate what the Registrar may have heard & the fact she could not read/write in English.

Me too much to my family's amusement.

I'd love to see the list of wildcard permutations that everybody has used on this one!!!!!!

[WilmaM]

I was reading through this thread again and noticed something:

I was shown a piece of paper by his granddaughter (now deceased) which said 'Isaac RIEMER died 19th January 1896' His wife registered the birth (26th December 1895) of their last daughter on 23rd January 1896.

Carole

When the child was born [26.12.1895] her Father would have been ALIVE, though by the time the birth was registered [23.1.1896] he should have been DEAD, if the DOD 19.1.1896 is correct.
So Jane would have been correct in not saying he was deceased.

Another point that struck me, the date of his death and that of the birth registration are very close , could she possibly have done both at the same time? in which case could GROS look at that office's death registers for that date to see if Isaac is there?

Carole, you mentioned too that the children are buried in Craigton do you know where Jane herself is buried?

Just searching for clues outwith the obvious k

[nelmit]

I was shown a piece of paper by his granddaughter (now deceased) which said 'Isaac RIEMER died 19th January 1896' His wife registered the birth (26th December 1895) of their last daughter on 23rd January 1896.

Carole

When the child was born [26.12.1895] her Father would have been ALIVE, though by the time the birth was registered [23.1.1896] he should have been DEAD, if the DOD 19.1.1896 is correct.
So Jane would have been correct in not saying he was deceased.

I thought of that too but I would have thought that date of death would have been required at time of registration and not birth.

Another point that struck me, the date of his death and that of the birth registration are very close , could she possibly have done both at the same time? in which case could GROS look at that office's death registers for that date to see if Isaac is there?

Good idea.

Carole, you mentioned too that the children are buried in Craigton do you know where Jane herself is buried?

I can see a Sunday walk coming on!

Regards,
Annette

[casserole]

Hello WilmaM and Annette,

Good observations.

The next thing to establish is whether the death of the father should have been noted if he died after the child was born but before the registration. One to include in my communication with GROS. I think that the registration would be to provide information which was correct on the day the birth took place, but I may be wrong.

Good one re the birth and death being registered together. This might account for the omission of Isaac being deceased on the birth registration i.e. registrar having an unusual set of circumstances to contend with.

Yes WilmaM, Jane is buried at Sandymount Jewish Section, Glasgow. The first internment there was in 1908 so too late for Isaac.

Craigton was used from 1881-1897 and is where his four young children are buried. The other possible cemetery is Janefield (Eastern Necropolis) but Harvey Kaplan has checked both lists and he is not there. Craigton cemetery is now privately owned and, I believe, is in a dreadful state.

May I throw this in - what about a wildcard search of the letter K? Might R be mistaken for a K? If his death has been misindexed then the mistake must surely be of the first initial.

Never mind your families having a laugh at you all spouting out obscure grunts just think of me here in hysterics. Thank you Isaac for giving us such a laugh but WHERE ARE YOU?????

Carole

[WilmaM]

Craigton cemetery is now privately owned and, I believe, is in a dreadful state.

Carole

Actually Craigton USED to be privately owned, but about 5 years ago the council took it over.
I visited it in 2005 and they were just begining to make inroads into the dreadful jungle that had been allowed to take over.
Searching in there for anyone would be hard if you knew where to look., but impossible if you didn't!

Jane is buried at Sandymount Jewish Section, Glasgow. The first internment there was in 1908 so too late for Isaac.

So his wife doesn't help here either

He is making alien abduction look more likely

[LesleyB]

Hi Carole

If his death has been misindexed then the mistake must surely be of the first initial.

I think those of us who have been off wildcarding have covered that possibility already...I know I did use a leading wildcard, with only about one other letter - you can't enter fewer than 2 actual letters...
David (Montrose Budie) states in his post that he has already tried a leading wildcard too, so any letter as the first letter has already been covered.

If his name was William or John this would have been a big problem, but a first name Isaac is fairly unusual, which is a good thing as it prevents potentially hundreds of results being returned, none of which are the correct person! (I've tried wildcards in Isaac too, to try to cover any creative spellings!!)

Best wishes
Lesley