muir: hit a bickwall

katrina42 · Post by **katrina42** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:04 pm

just looked at malcolm's wedding certificate and his father james muir was still alive then mother elizabeth mclelland (deceased).

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:11 pm

katrina42 wrote:hello it was james muir and his wife Elizabeth mclelland, my error it was Elizabeth who died on 15/07/1900.will try and lookup james's death.thought i had that certificate too.??

But Elizabeth is still there in 1901!

But there are numerous differences between James and Elizabeth's entries between 1891 and 1901. Still, it looks to me to be the same family... but perhaps he married someone else named Elizabeth right after the first Elizabeth died?

What do you think? Will be interested to see if you do have that death cert for 1900 and who it is...!

1891
Dairy Close, Campbeltown, Argyll
James Muir, 45, Head, born Ayr, Ayrshire, Butcher
Lizzie Muir, 46, Wife, born Ayr, Ayrshire
Jeannie Muir, 22, Daur, born Ayr, Ayrshire
James Muir, 20, Son, born Wallacetown, Ayrshire, Butcher
John Muir, 18, Son, born Campbeltown, Argyll, Butcher
Andrew Muir, 13, Son, born Campbeltown, Argyll, scholar
Malcolm Muir, 11, Son, born Campbeltown, Argyll, Scholar
Lizzie Muir, 9, Daur, born Campbeltown, Argyll, Scholar
Mary Muir, 2, Daur, born Campbeltown, Argyll
Robert Jackson, 18 Mo, Grandchild

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:21 pm

Okay, going backwards to 1881, Malcolm is definitely not there yet, so the age of 11 in 1891 was a bit optimistic

Perhaps given by Malcolm himself, since his mother couldn't read

1881
Campbeltown, Argyll
James Muir, 31, Head, born Ayr, Butcher
Elizabeth Muir, 33, wife, born Ayr
Jeanie Muir, 12, Daur, born Ayr, Scholar
James Muir, 10, Son, born Ayr, Scholar
John Mc Phael Muir, 8, born Campbeltown, Scholar
Andrew Muir, 2, Son, born Campbelton, Scholar
Jain Neiven, 69, Mother-in-law, born Ayr

Bit of a problem, perhaps, with the mother-in-law's surname... but could be explained many ways: it could be her maiden name, she could have married again after Elizabeth's father died, she might never have married Elizabeth's father, etc. Elizabeth's death cert, or James and Elizabeth's marriage cert should clarify this.

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:30 pm

The only death for Elizabeth Muir, born 1848 +/- 3 years, other surname m*l*n* that I see in Cambeltown is the one you have for 1900

I get TWO matches for a James Muir marrying an Eli* between 1900 and 1901 in Campbeltown... so maybe he did remarry another Elizabeth in short order

I will be most interested to see what you come up with on those certs!

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:30 pm

Ah

Here's the tie-in with the mother-in-law
I was trying to find the family in 1871-- should be in Ayr, since Jeanie and James were reportedly born there. Searching far and wide, I finally found Jeanie-- with her grandmother Jane Newen! And in the household is a daughter Jane McClelland!

1871
Darels Land Elba St, St Quivox, Ayr Landward
Jane Newen, 59, Head, born Newton, Ayrshire, Washerwoman
Jane McClelland, 24, Daur, born Newton, Ayrshire, Sewer
Jane E Muer, 2, Grandaur, born St Quivox, Ayrshire

Her parents have already moved to Campbeltown with the new baby James:

1871
Shore Street, Campbeltown, Argyll
James Moore, 21, Head, born Ayr (Oldton), Ayrshire, Flesher
Elizabeth Moore, 23, Wife, born Newton, Ayrshire
James Moore, 4 Mo, Son, born Newton, Ayrshire

katrina42 · Post by **katrina42** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:36 pm

getting closer to finding out wjo james snr was and where he was born i think,this is the most excited i'v been in months .x

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:19 pm

I'm excited too, and it's not even my family

By the way, if you want to go backwards with Elizabeth McClelland and her mother Jean Neiven/Newen, Jean appears to be actually Niven (not too surprising) and is Niven back through the years to before the births of what look like twin McClelland girls. So... I don't think she ever married McClelland. Would be interesting to see who Elizabeth thinks her father is and what his profession was.

Regards,
Sarah

katrina42 · Post by **katrina42** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:33 pm

hi sarah thanks for that

it will certainly be worth checking out at a later date as twins do run in the family, my dad had twin cousins and my ebig brother has had two sets of twins,interesting eh..

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:53 pm

Interesting about the twins

Because...

$ in 1841 Jean Niven has another set of twins... boys 7mo old at the time of the census, with surname McKay

Sounds like an interesting woman

and definitely worth a look in the Kirk Session Records!

katrina42 · Post by **katrina42** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:57 pm

how do you get to look in the kirk sessions