BMD of elusive family - help/advice please!

MJayne · Post by **MJayne** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:10 pm

OK, here is what I know. My GGrandfather was Robert Hannah ALLAN. His mother was Jane Buchanan ALLAN and her parents were Robert and Jane HANNAH (nee Buchanan). This info is as per GGDs birth cert (Robert Allan HANNAH at that time) and GGGMs marriage cert in 1918 (Hutchesontown, Glasgow) on which her age is noted as 34 yrs and both her parents as deceased.

Problem is I cannot find GGGMs birth (approx 1884) nor can I find birth, marriage or death certs for her parents.

I have checked just about every combination I can think of in SP under SR and OPRs but can't find this elusive trio. I know that GGGM was in Maybole, Ayr for birth of GGF but whether she was from that are originally or moved there for work (she is noted as an Outdoor Worker) I can't tell.

According to my GM, GGF had 3 brothers and a sister (Thomas, William, David and Rebecca Allan) but I can't find any of them either as they might have been born after 1906. I was thinking of planning a trip to Park Circus to try and track this bunch down, but am not sure whether PC have the Glasgow records only or if they will have Ayr too.

Some very nice people helped me find GGFs birth cert from a previous post so I am hoping that they or someone else will read this post and have some suggestions that will help me track down this mob.

All in all, GMs paternal ancestors are a tricky bunch. No such problems on her mother's side - so far anyway!

I have my fingers crossed.

Cheers

Jayne

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:34 pm

Hi Jayne

I just stumbled upon a discovery.

Jane Hannah had a son name Robert in 1901 before the birth of your Robert Allan. (signatures match) She was in Maybole for that too and and an outdoor worker. The child only lived a few days. Using the address for those events this can only be her on the 1901 census.....

Name: Jeanie Hannah
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Mother's name: Catherine
Gender: Female
Where born: Sorn, England

Registration district: Maybole
Civil parish: Maybole
County: Ayrshire
Address: Croy Cottage
Occupation: Outdoor Worker
ED: 15
Household Members: Name Age
Agnes Hannah 22
Catherine Hannah 73
Jeanie Hannah 22
Rebecca Hannah 18
Rebecca Hannah 2
Robert Hannah 1

Not sure that Catherine is truly her mother but at least you've got a toe in the door now.......

Best wishes
Jean

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:00 pm

In case you haven't visited it yet Maybole has a brilliant website - www.maybole.org

My dad's family came from there.

Regards,
Annette M

MJayne · Post by **MJayne** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:56 pm

Jean/Annette,

Soory it has taken me so long to thank you both. Think you have hit the nail on the head, Jean. Think you have found my GGGM. It all seems to check out OK except for the fact that her mother is named as Jane Hannah nee Buchanan on her marriage cert. This still bothers me so I'll try digging a bit further.

Will have a look round the Maybole website, Annette. Don't know the area at all so should be interesting. Might have to take a trip there one day!

My GGF's line is proving very problematic. Will be posting another problem soon. The help I have gotten from the TS buddies has been invaluable so far!

Cheers!

Jayne

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:30 pm

Hi Jayne

Glad to have helped a bit even if you still have some lingering questions.

By all means keep asking and we'll keep looking for answers

Best wishes
Jean

deano · Post by **deano** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:55 am

Hello Jayne,

If the above Jane Hannah, age 22 years, on the 1901. census, is the correct person then her parents were Robert Hannah, and Catherine Boon, they were married 18/April/1862, Monkton, Ayr.

This Jane Hannah, was born about 1879, Sorn, Ayr, and not Sorn, England, as the census states.

She had lots of brothers and sisters, and her father was a Agriculture Labourer, and thats why they lived in various parts of Ayrshire, Maybole, Monkton, Galston, Sorn, etc.

Regards,
Jonn.

MJayne · Post by **MJayne** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:02 pm

Jonn,

I followed Jean's lead too and got hte same info as you did. Robert and Catherine did indeed have many children, so I might research them for a bit to see if I get any further. I found a DC for Robert - he looks to have left the farm work and became a dock labourer only to be struck by a crane chain whilst working at Ardrossan Harbour on 11/11/1890 and died the next day at Kilmarnock Hospital. Poor guy - should have stayed on the farm!

Poor Catherine - left with all those kids!!

Isn't it funny how you get attached to these guys.

The little information I have is based on what my Gran remembers and that is very sketchy. I am hoping that if I give her the names I have dug up and the circumstances of Robert's death, it might ring a bell with her.

The thing that worries me most is that MC where Jane Buchanan Hannah says her mother was Jane Hannah nee Buchanan. Surely she can't have gotten her own mother's name wrong!

Will keep bashing away. If anyone finds anything else that may help, please let me know.

Ta very much!

Jayne

MJayne · Post by **MJayne** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:12 pm

I have been looking at the marriage cert of Robert Allan and Jane Buchanan Hannah again. They were married on 18/04/1918 at St Bernard's Parish Church in Glasgow. Jane's parents are clearly noted as Robert Hannah and Jane Hannah m.s. Buchanan. Both are deceased. I still cannot find births or deaths for Jane or her parents. Neither can I find her parent's marriage. This leads me to think that there could have been an error in the recording of her parent's names in the register.

So, I thought that an avenue to try would be to see if the church records still exist. However, there appears to be only one St Bernard's Parish Church in Glasgow and the building wasn't completed until 1963. The parish itself didn't even exist until 1960! What is going on here? For all intents and purposes, this is a non-existant woman with non-existant parents getting married in a non-existant church!

Does anyone know of a way to track down churches which may no longer exist? I have googled St Bernard's and can't find any in Glasgow other than the current one. I wondered whether it was just a replacement building and contacted them but they told me about the parish not even existing at that time. Plus, the cert says "After Publication according to the forms of the Established Church of Scotland" so it doesn't appear to have been a RC church.

The usual address for Robert Allan and Jane Hannah is given as 12 South Wellington Street, Glasgow so they lived pretty much slap bang in the centre of town. If my other research is correct, they had been together for many years and had their family long before they married (he was 48 and she was 34). He looks to have died in 1928 but, as I said, I can't find any record of her death. She must have gotten back in her spaceship and returned to her home planet!!

I'm hoping that someone out there may be struck with inspiration and have some advice to offer. I can't beleive that I am getting stuck so early on in this line!!!

Got everything crossed!

Jayne

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:00 am

Hi Jayne,

The Kirk Session records show two Glasgow churches by the name of St Bernard's. The online NAS index is not working just now, so I cannot see dates for either of these. From other sources, I see these are catalogued by NAS as:

CH2/1474 Glasgow, Oatlands St. Bernard's
CH2/1475 Glasgow, St. Bernard's

What I cannot tell from these name is whether these are two completely different churches, or if they are the same St Bernard's, becoming Oatlands St Bernard's following a merger with Oatlands Church (my supposition only).

However, the original documents of Kirk Session records for the Glasgow area are not held by NAS, but by Glasgow City Archives. Are these archives in the Mitchell Library? A look at these records may hold some information useful in your search.

See also a mention in the churches paragraph on the following webpage.

http://www.condorrat.freeserve.co.uk/gorbals_story.htm

All the best,

AndrewP

Post by **SarahND** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:20 am

MJayne wrote: He looks to have died in 1928 but, as I said, I can't find any record of her death. She must have gotten back in her spaceship and returned to her home planet!!

Could she have gone to stay with one of her children? Did any of them go to America or Australia or even just down to England?

Just a thought...
Sarah

Later: On SP there is one Jane Allan other surname Hannah who died in Glasgow City in 1930. This one was born in 1878, which fits the Jane that JustJean found for you in 1901. Have you checked this one out?