Shaw/Dennistoun

Birth, Marriage, Death

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kc50
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:49 am
Location: Staffordshire, England

Shaw/Dennistoun

Post by kc50 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:48 am

Hi everyone, Heymarky (my newly found cousin) pointed me in your direction can anyone help?

I have a marriage cert for william shaw and mary irving 1856 county of dumfries. It shows William's parents as William Shaw and Margt Dennistoun. I can find them anywhere. Nor can i find William Shaw (younger) birth cert?? I have his death cert but his parents are not recorded.

Thanks in advance :lol:
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Russell
Posts: 2559
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire

Post by Russell » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:56 am

Hi there

Can I extend a welcome to TalkingScot. The best advertising is word of mouth obviously. [scotland-flag]


William (the younger) must have been born before the start of Statutory Registration (1855) so there would be no Birth Certificate to find I'm afraid. The best you would get is an entry in the Old Parochial Records (OPR).
I had a look for his birth and could find only two William Shaw births with a father William in the whole of Scotland between 1830 and 1841. Only one was in Dumfries in 1841 Kelton parish. Both had Margaret as the mothers name but not Dennistoun as the surname.
I was unable to locate the other.
The 1841 birth would mean he was rather young to get married in 1856 so doubtful if this is the right one.
I would suspect that William Shaw and Margaret Dennistoun may have belonged to a church other than the Establishe Church of Scotland.
Without knowing the parish in which they married it would be difficult to establish whether the records of any of the dissenting churches have been archived in the NAS.
Does son William's marriage certificate say which church they were married in ? This could give a clue as to the faith his parents adhered to unless of course his wife was Church of Scotland and he followed her faith.
I presume you have young William and Mary's 6 children already. Their naming sequence might also give a clue as to possible grandparents.

Russell
Working on: Oman, Brock, Miller/Millar, in Caithness.
Roan/Rowan, Hastings, Sharp, Lapraik in Ayr & Kirkcudbrightshire.
Johnston, Reside, Lyle all over the place !
McGilvray(spelt 26 different ways)
Watson, Morton, Anderson, Tawse, in Kilrenny
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kc50
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:49 am
Location: Staffordshire, England

Shaw/Dennistoun

Post by kc50 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:14 am

Hi Russell

Thanks for the welcome and the prompt response!

I have children Benjamin, Elizabeth, Thomas, Janet and Helen?? i'm hoping i have the correct family?

I have posted the marriage certicate in the gallery as i can hardly decipher William's mother's name and unfortunately the church in which they married. Apologies as i don't know how to link this post to it.
I can tell you that they married in the parish of Middlebie in the County of Dumfries.
I'm pretty new to all this research so please excuse my apparent ignorance :?

Thanks for your help
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heymarky
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: San Jose, California, USA

Post by heymarky » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:11 am

Hey Cuz!

The file is at
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1372
Lyons and Dyers, McBeans, oh my!
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paddyscar
Site Admin
Posts: 2418
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Post by paddyscar » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:50 am

Hi kc50:

On the fifth day of September 1856 at Munside Middlebie
Marriage (after Banns) was solemnized between us according
to the Forms of the _________ Church of Scotland

(Signed) William Shaw 19, Scales Gretna - not sure about the place
Bachelor, Farm Servant
Parents: William Shaw, Gardener
Margaret Dennistoun

(signed) Mary Irving, 19, Munside Middlebie
Spinster
Parents: John Irving, Labourer
Janet Rae

(Signed) John Mathiesen
________ Minister
_____________

(Signed) Frances Bell, Witness
(Signed) Catherine Mc Menamie, Witness

At first I thought Catherine had a middle name, but I think the 'Mc' was on one line and because there wasn't enough room, the 'Menamie' was written on the following line.

Frances
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Anne H
Global Moderator
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by Anne H » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:17 am

Hi kc50,

I agree with Frances' transcription below and have added what I think the missing words are in blue...

On the fifth day of September 1856 at Munside Middlebie
Marriage (after Banns) was solemnized between us according
to the Forms of the Free Church of Scotland

(Signed) William Shaw 19, Scales Gretna - not sure about the place (I believe Scales is correct)
Bachelor, Farm Servant
Parents: William Shaw, Gardener
Margaret Dennistoun

(signed) Mary Irving, 19, Munside Middlebie
Spinster
Parents: John Irving, Labourer
Janet Rae

(Signed) John Mathiesen
Free Ch. Minister
Ecclesfechan

(Signed) Frances Bell, Witness
(Signed) Catherine Mc Menamie, Witness
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Russell
Posts: 2559
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: Kilbarchan, Renfrewshire

Post by Russell » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:41 am

Hi kc50

I agree with Anne's interpretation.

I had a look for Wiliam Shaw Jnr and Mary Irving's children and found a Margaret b 10/8/1861 and Mary b 7/6/1874.
Margaret was born in Middlebie and Mary born in Kirkpatrick-Fleming.

I didn't find a Helen but sometimes the IGI lists are incomplete because of a minor spelling difference which their search engine does not pick up.
My guess was correct. They were Free Church. There is still a chance of records having survived but not been digitised so the NAS on-line catalogue is your next port of call.

Russell
Working on: Oman, Brock, Miller/Millar, in Caithness.
Roan/Rowan, Hastings, Sharp, Lapraik in Ayr & Kirkcudbrightshire.
Johnston, Reside, Lyle all over the place !
McGilvray(spelt 26 different ways)
Watson, Morton, Anderson, Tawse, in Kilrenny
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kc50
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:49 am
Location: Staffordshire, England

Shaw/Dennistoun

Post by kc50 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:45 am

Thanks to everyone for your help.


Russell:
I think the Margaret you spotted and Helen is 'Margaret ellen' depending on where i search.

I'll continue my search and keep you posted

Thanks again guys
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nelmit
Posts: 4002
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by nelmit » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:24 am

Have you seen this census for 1851?

Name: BELL , Elizabeth
Address: School Croft(837)
Parish: Kirkpatrick Fleming
Relationship: head of household
Marital Status: widow
Occupation: PAUPER
Age: 78
Born: born Canonbie Dms
Household No: 3/4

Name: BELL , Francis
Address: School Croft(837)
Parish: Kirkpatrick Fleming
Relationship: grandson of Elizabeth Bell
Marital Status:
Occupation: SCHOLAR
Age: 13
Born: born Kirkpatrick Fleming Dms
Household No: 3/4

Name: GORDON , William
Address: School Croft(837)
Parish: Kirkpatrick Fleming
Relationship: boarder in household of Elizabeth Bell
Marital Status:
Occupation: PAUPER
Age: 2
Born: born Kirkpatrick Fleming Dms
Household No: 3/4

Name: SHAW , William
Address: School Croft(837)
Parish: Kirkpatrick Fleming
Relationship: boarder in household of Elizabeth Bell
Marital Status:
Occupation: PAUPER/scholar
Age: 12
Born: born Ireland
Household No: 3/4

William was living with this family in 1841 too although his age then was transcribed as 12.

Just wondered if the witness was Francis and not Frances.

Regards,
Annette M
Last edited by nelmit on Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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nelmit
Posts: 4002
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Post by nelmit » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:32 am

I know this is a bit far fetched but just in case........................................

Name: COLDSTREAM , William
Address: Keir Manse(833)
Parish: Keir
Relationship: nephew of William Menzies
Marital Status:
Occupation: SCHOLAR
Age: 10
Born: born Leith Midlothian
Household No: 4/31

Name: DENNISTOUN , Margaret
Address: Keir Manse(833)
Parish: Keir
Relationship: cousin of William Menzies
Marital Status: unmarried
Occupation:
Age: 35
Born: born Carmichael Lanarkshire
Household No: 4/31

Name: DUNKELD , Mary
Address: Keir Manse(833)
Parish: Keir
Relationship: household of William Menzies
Marital Status: unmarried
Occupation: SERVANT house
Age: 23
Born: born Keir Dms
Household No: 4/31

Name: GIBSON , Mary
Address: Keir Manse(833)
Parish: Keir
Relationship: household of William Menzies
Marital Status: unmarried
Occupation: COOK
Age: 34
Born: born Keir Dms
Household No: 4/31

Name: GRACIE , Janet
Address: Keir Manse(833)
Parish: Keir
Relationship: household of William Menzies
Marital Status: unmarried
Occupation: SERVANT house
Age: 17
Born: born Closeburn Dms
Household No: 4/31

Name: MENZIES , Agnes
Address: Keir Manse(833)
Parish: Keir
Relationship: wife of William Menzies
Marital Status: married
Occupation:
Age: 55
Born: born Edinburgh Midlothian
Household No: 4/31

Name: MENZIES , James
Address: Keir Manse(833)
Parish: Keir
Relationship: son of William Menzies
Marital Status: unmarried
Occupation: SCHOLAR at home
Age: 17
Born: born Keir Dms
Household No: 4/31

Name: MENZIES , Jane
Address: Keir Manse(833)
Parish: Keir
Relationship: daughter of William Menzies
Marital Status:
Occupation: SCHOLAR
Age: 13
Born: born Keir Dms
Household No: 4/31

Name: MENZIES , John
Address: Keir Manse(833)
Parish: Keir
Relationship: son of William Menzies
Marital Status: unmarried
Occupation: STUDENT
Age: 19
Born: born Keir Dms
Household No: 4/31

Name: MENZIES , William
Address: Keir Manse(833)
Parish: Keir
Relationship: head of household
Marital Status: married
Occupation: MINISTER of Keir
Age: 53
Born: born Lanark Lanarkshire
Household No: 4/31

regards,
Annette M
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