LYON = LYONS illegitimate

JeanM · Post by **JeanM** » Tue May 13, 2008 8:21 am

Hello TS searchers

Delighted that I have found this lively forum. The current paper trail
of certificates issued by Scotland's People has added a complicated
twist to my research Could the following be related (LYON=LYONS)?

Births
9th June 1906 73 Sumner Street Aberdeen
Jeanie CHRISTENS LYON Illegitimate
Mother Violet LYON Occupation envelope worker

with the help of the Census records and another search I have
this record

17 October 1887 8 Butcher Row, Dundee
Violet CHIVAS LYONS Illegitimate
Mother JENNIE LYONS Occupation Dressmaker

The middle names CHIVAS and CHRISTENS are a puzzle to me.
I have the jpeg images of the entries if it would help.

There is a very vague family story that a Shoemaker who was
believed to have been from Scandinavia was involved!

Comments from those who 'know the ropes' would be most
welcome.

JeanM
in Kent

Post by **joette** » Tue May 13, 2008 2:53 pm

Hi Jean & welcome to [talkingscot]

.
We all have these vague "stories" in our trees & that's part of the fun
finding out if there is any grain of truth in the tales.

Have you searched for any marriages/deaths of Violet Lyons? Finding if she died in Scotland & where & when may give a clue if they are the same people.
Her death would list parents & off course you would be looking for Jennie Lyons as the Mother.
I would also look at the Censuses to see where they are & if they are together.
Did Jeannie marry who did she give as her parents?
How do they relate to the rest of your family?
Forgot to add that often illegitimate children were given their Father's name as a middle one then if the parents married it was a case of using the middle name as the surname.It was also a way that a finger could be pointed at the reputed Father too.

JeanM · Post by **JeanM** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:39 pm

Hi and many thanks for the warm welcome.

A record of the death of Violet LYON(s) in Scotland is elusive so far.

The official documents I have collected on this family reveal
particularly complicated households.

The example is Census 1891
37 Spa Street, Old or St Machar, Aberdeen
Alexander LYON b. 1844
Margaret wife b. Tarves, Aberdeenshire
Violet C Lyon(s) Adopted daughter b 1887 Dundee

I have found marriage
17 September 1897 at Edinburgh Unitarian Church
Georgina Lyon(s) = August Carl Christenson,
Occupation Shoe and Patten Designer

The documents show Georgina's father was Alexander LYON(s)

Reading between the lines there must be a good/bad melodrama waiting to be written. I know this is a tall order but a hint where next would be gratefully received.

good wishes
JeanM

JeanM · Post by **JeanM** » Tue May 13, 2008 5:10 pm

Hello searchers,

I had intended to include this information in the previous post.

Agust Carl CHRISTENS (deceased) was shown as the
father of Jean Lyon CHRISTIAN, spinster 21 years for her
marriage 1928 at Eastbourne, Sussex.

As can be seen the surname spelling with variations
are a challenge for a researcher.

JeanM

Post by **AnneM** » Thu May 15, 2008 11:10 pm

Hi Jean

I did some digging into this and came up with some details but something awful happened to my post and it is too late tonight to repost. Will do so tomorrow.

Anne

JeanM · Post by **JeanM** » Thu May 15, 2008 11:32 pm

hello Anne,

many thanks for the call I shall look forward to the news when you have time and the computer is willing.

good wishes
JeanM

Forgot to add that William Stephen is another of Margaret's illegitimate children who crops up in the census in 1861 aged 7 and living with Margaret and her grandfather William Duncan.

Post by **AnneM** » Fri May 16, 2008 11:24 pm

Right Jean.

Here goes with what may or may not be helpful. This lot are difficult to trace because they seem to have an allergy to marriage, understandable I'm sure.

Firstly I'm sure that the Violet born in Dundee is the one who subsequently crops up in Aberdeen.

By 1891 Alexander Lyon is dead and the Violet is in the household as follows:

Margaret Lyon Head Widow 51 Dressmaker born Tarves
Jeannie Lyon Daur Unm ?24 Dressmaker born Tarves
Maggie Lyon Daur Unm 16 Confectioners Shopwoman born Buxburn
Ina Gammie Granddaur 7 Scholar born Aberdeen
Violet C Lyon Adopted daur 4 born Dundee

Ina was born Alexina Gammie Lyon in Aberdeen on 25th November 1883 to Jennie Lyon dressmaker. It seems a fair bet that her father's surname was Gammie.

Alexander died on 23rd October 1886 in Aberdeen aged allegedly 41. He is given as a labourer married to Margaret Chesser. The informant is his stepson William Stephen. His parents are given as Alexander Lyon, Farm Servant and Susan Lyon m.s. Wyness.

Jennie/Jeannie Lyon goes on to have another illegitimate child on 24th October 1889 in Montrose called Isabella McKinnon Lyon. She appears with Margaret and Violet in 1901 but I'm not sure where she is in 1891. Could not find her anywhere.

In 1871 Margaret appears as Margaret Lyon in Meldrum. She has with her her daughters Jane Henderson aged 8, born Tarves and Isabella Ross aged 4 also born Tarves. She also has her stepson Alexander Lyon aged 7 born England. Alexander himself is nowhere in sight though she appears as married Farm Labourer's wife. There is a possible Alexander born in Newmachar working as farm servant in Methlick in 1871 though he is given as 39 by ancestry and I don't have any more credits to view the original. My guess is that is him.

Isabella's Daddy owned up to her and signed her birth certificate. He was James Ross a farm labourer in Mill of Allathan, Udny. Jane on the other hand appears to have been born as Jean Chesser on 27th April 1863 at Tarves and no father is given. I think she is the same person as your Jeannie or Jennie Lyon, the dressmaker who is the mother of Violet, Ina and Isabella.

I would say that this makes it likely that the Violet Lyon who gives birth to the child in 1906 is the same Violet as her daughter is called Jeanie.

I would think that the Jean Lyon Christian who marries in 1928 aged 21 is most likely to be the daughter of August Carl Christens and Georgina Lyon. I was not sure where you got the August as it does not appear on the marriage certificate but they are in Edinburgh in 1901 and it appears then. This census states that Georgina was 30 and born in Aberdeen County but I cannot find a Georgina Lyon born at that time. She does not appear to be another of Margaret's illegitimate weans as there are no Chessers born at the right time either. The marriage certificate for Carl and Georgina gives her parents as Alexander Lyon farmer deceased and Margaret m.s. Chisholm which is suspiciously near Chesser.

Whether the marriage in England has anything to do with the Jeanie who is the daughter of Violet I know not.

So if the Jean Christens or whatever that got married is yours then it is just probable that all my digging at Violet's family has been pointless or maybe not!!

Alexander and Margaret had a daughter in 1870 but her name was Mary. They also had a son called George in 1871 but both died in early infancy. Isabella Ross also died in 1880.

Alexander and Margaret were married on 23rd October 1869 in Meldrum and their parents were given as William Lyon and Susan Wyness while hers are William Chesser shoemaker and Helen Duncan. This suggests that both Alexander and Margaret were also illegitimate. Alexander himself however does not seem so averse to marriage as he appears as a widower though how on earth he got from being a farm servant in Kincardine O'Neill in 1861 to having a child in England a few years later who can guess!!

Hope some of this is helpful.

Anne

JeanM · Post by **JeanM** » Sat May 17, 2008 12:01 am

Hello Anne

Well! You have been hard at the digging in deep in the records and I am most grateful. As you can see an appointment in church to marry didn't hold much appeal for this family.

I shall read through your message with care and, if it's not too
much trouble, may I send additional thoughts in the a.m.

many thanks for your help

Jean

JeanM · Post by **JeanM** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:31 am

Hello Anne,

With your help I believe the picture is becoming clearer, at least in some of the key relationships. Not a normal family by a long way but as we know straightforward research isn't half a much fun for serious sleuths!! I have re-worked a sample family tree to include the newcomers.

It has occurred to me that CHIVAS may also be near to CHISHOLM+CHESSER. Although the image of the birth entry does appear to be clear enough.
Violet C Lyon becomes LYONS on the birth record 17 October 1887.
I imagine the clerk had to do their best with the information that was provided.

Also I did find a Carl GAMMIE born ca. 1864

In the 1901 Census the enumerator or perhaps a later transcriber
had given up on both spelling and nationality of CHRISTENS - Dumtsh
(Dutch/Danish/Deutsch) however his occupation of shoemaker
is significant.
A letter I have been sent states Violet was said to have had her shoes made by her father.

1901 Census
August C Chriestens Age:36 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1865
Relationship:Head Spouse's name :Georgina
Gender:Male Where born:Subject, Dumtsh
Registration Number:685/1
Registration district:St George Civil Parish:Edinburgh St Michael
County:Midlothian Address:70 Angle Park Terrace
Occupation:Bootmaker
ED:133Page:20 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number:101 Line:4 Roll:CSSCT1901_369

With your many latest additions, gratefully received, I can continue
the search and if you wish forward details of further developments
to you in due course.

Can I offer to top-up/replace some of the credits at Scotland's People?
It is very easy to run out just at a crucial moment.

when you have time, let's speak some more

good wishes
Jean

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat May 17, 2008 2:06 pm

JeanM wrote:1901 Census
August C Chriestens Age:36 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1865
Relationship:Head Spouse's name :Georgina
Gender:Male Where born:Subject, Dumtsh

Hi Jean,

I took a look at the image of the census page on ScotlandsPeople. The nationality has a large pencil line trough it (as was commonly done when they were conting up the census details tol go into the summary pages). In my opinion, it says Danish Subject for August's nationality.

The line scored through the nationality is almost certainly coloured pencil, usually red or blue form the census books that I have seen in NRH. It may be worth filling in a contact form on the ScotlandsPeople website and asking them to send you a copy (by e-mail) from the book, and in case that doesn't come out clearly, could they look at the book and see if they can confirm whether it says Danish, or what else if not Danish.

A copy that they send is normally grey-scale rather than the absolute black and white of the SP images. That gives more scope for you to be able to read the parts that have been scored through in coloured pencil.

All the best,

AndrewP

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