"Was he shot to death?"

[sheryl]

Hi All,
I just joined a couple of days ago. I posted a message.....received no response. I'm trying to learn how to best post a message. My gg grandfather, William Young b. 1827 married Christine Sharp. Family lore says her father Robert Sharp was shot to death in 1865 as a deserter of Stirling Castle. Is that kind of information recorded anywhere?
Sheryl

[SarahND]

Hi Sheryl,
Welcome to Talking Scot!

I'm trying to get a handle on your people. Is this the correct census entry for William and Christine?

1861
Izat St, Alloa, Clackmananshire
William Young, 34, Head, born Fossway, Kinrossshire, Labourer
Christina Young, 32, Wife, born Fossway, Perthshire
Helen Young, 11, daughter, born Fossway, Perthshire
Elizabeth Young, 7, daughter, born Kincardine, Perthshire
Andrew Young, 5, son, born Alloa, Clackmannanshire
Robert Young, 1, so, born Alloa, Clackmannanshire

If so, then this is probably Christine with her family in 1841:

1841
Old Blairingone, Fossoway, Kinross
Robert Sharp, 60, born Kinross, Coal M
Hellen Sharp, 55, born Kinross
Elesbeth Sharp, 30
Robert Sharp, 25
Mary Sharp, 20
Christian Sharp, 12
Bety Sharp, 8
Marget Jackson, 4

Now... you are saying that Christine's father, who was 60+ in 1841, was shot as a deserter 24 years later when he was in his 80's??? I must admit I'm confused!

Tell me where I'm going wrong!

If the death was in 1865, then there should be a death certificate that would tell you more. Have you looked for one on Scotland's People?

All the best,
Sarah

[LesleyB]

Hi Sheryl
Welcome to Talking Scot

I just joined a couple of days ago. I posted a message.....received no response.

Your previous post was successful. It is on the forum, but posts are not always answered immediately... maybe because no one is around to answer the post, or it was the middle of the night for some folk when you posted (we are all volunteers, and are scattered all over the globe), maybe because the question asked is one which has no obvious or easy answer and needs a bit of thought, or maybe because a couple of members have noted the details in a post and are off doing a bit of background research to try to help, and will come back later with anything they have found.

All posts are answered here on Talking Scot, unlike many other forums on the web, but not always within 24hrs...

Best wishes
Lesley

[sheryl]

Lesley and Sarah,
Thank you for both of your responses. I hope I didn't sound like a petulant child with no patience. I'm just excited to have found your site. Sarah, yes the 1861 census is the right one. The challenge for me is that I'm getting my information from a small 4 in. x 6 in piece of paper filled with names and dates that a great aunt wrote out many years ago (probably in the 1960s...she got her info from the older sister). Not all of the information is clear. She definitely wrote out that Robert Sharp and Helen Jack wed - no date attached. She also definitely wrote that they had 2 sons and 10 daughters Under this she wrote Robert was literally hunted to death deserter from Stirling Castle. in Feb. 1865. Maybe it was their son??!! Because she also wrote with it John died May 1865 and Rab died July 1865 and Nell died 1867. (Idon't know what Rab is short for). And then under this is Christine wed William Young (a long line from Crook of Devon)
Sheryl (Massachusetts)

[AndrewP]

... Rab died July 1865 and Nell died 1867. (Idon't know what Rab is short for). ...

Hi Sheryl,

Rab is usually short for Robert.

All the best,

AndrewP

[Falkyrn]

Scotlands people lists 5 Robert Sharps who died in 1865 unfortunately they are all listed as age unknown.

BLACKFORD,PERTH Gros Ref 333/00 0010
FOSSOWAY AND TULLIEBOLE,KINROSS Gros Ref461/00 0007
HUTCHESONTOWN,GLASGOW Gros Ref 644/10 0340
KEIR,DUMFRIES Gros Ref 833/00 0014
FOSSOWAY AND TULLIEBOLE,KINROSS Gros Ref 461/00 0019

[SarahND]

Scotlands people lists 5 Robert Sharps who died in 1865 unfortunately they are all listed as age unknown.

Often the unknown age ones will be newborns... One of those deaths might be this infant born 17 Oct 1865 in Fossoway & Tulliebole
Father: Robert Sharp
Mother: Janet Stark

I don't see that child in 1871.

One might be him, though. I have come across entries where the age was "unknown" in the index, yet clear as a bell on the page. Somehow, someone accidentally skipped it.

Some of the details on your tiny piece of paper are easier to find

In the IGI (FamilySearch.org site) there is an extracted marriage that looks like Robert & Helen, only the first names are just initials:

R. Sharp & H. Jack
14 JUL 1805 Fossoway And Tulliebole, Kinross, Scotland

There is also the christening of a Robert Sharp on 27 JAN 1778 in Fossoway and Tulliebole, Kinross
Father: John Sharp
(mother unfortunately not mentioned)

In 1851 the household also contains a possible John (the other 1865 death on your wee paper?), who has become a shoemaker:

1851
Old Village of Blaringone, Fossoway, Kinross
Robert Sharp, 73, Head, born Fossoway, Perthshire, Coal Miner
Hellen Sharp, 65, Wife, born Fossoway, Coal Miner Wife
Elizabeth Sharp, 43, Daughter, born Fossoway, Coal Miner Daur
John Sharp, 33, Son, born Fossoway, Shoemaker
Mary Sharp, 30, Daughter, born Fossoway, At home
Betsy Sharp, 17, Daughter, born Fossoway, At Home
Hellen Sharp., 8, Daughter, born Fossoway, Scholar
Catherine Sharp, 1, Daughter, born Fossoway, At Home

Surely young Hellen and Catherine are grandchildren...

In the 1861 census for the Fossoway and Tulliebole registration district, there are three Robert Sharps...
Two are in the household of our old friend, now transcribed as 86 years old (a ripe old age for a coal miner!). His son Robert is 45:

1861
Blairingone Village, Fossoway and Tulliebole, Perthshire
Robert Sharp, 86, Head, born Fossoway, Perthshire, Coal Miner (formerly)
Helen Jack, 78, Wife, born Fossoway, Perthshire
Robert Sharp, 45, Son, born Fossoway, Perthshire, Coal Miner
Catherine A Sharp, 11, Grandaughter, born Methven, Perthshire, Scholar

By 1871 there is nary a Robert nor a John Sharp to be found who was born in Fossoway. I suspect old Robert has died by now and perhaps younger Robert was killed? I get no matches on Scotland's People for the 1865 death of a Robert Sharp born 1816 +/- 3 years, so if he died then, perhaps he is one of the unknown age ones found by Falkyrn. I get no matches for a John Sharp, born 1818 +/- 3 years and died in 1865. John is still in Blairingone Village in 1861, a shoemaker, but he is gone in 1871. So he perhaps died in that decade, although not in 1865. You can play with the search function on Scotland's People (link at top of page) and see if you can track down these deaths.

My head is spinning on this by now... so I'll pass it over to you!

All the best,
Sarah

[Adam Brown]

I don't have a great knowledge of Scots or Military law but I'd be surprised if any soldier was shot for deserting in Scotland in 1865. I think you may have been executed for deserting in the face of the enemy in wartime but not for going AWOL from a regimental depot in peacetime.

If he was shot for desertion then the year 1865 and the location- Stirling are perhaps red herrings.

Adam

[sheryl]

Hi All,
Thanks to all of you for the responses. I'm beginning to see how to track people and families over time to understand more. Most of the information on my piece of paper seems to bear out except tor the desertion part - but at least I now have a better ideas of peace time vs. wartime and the military cultural norms. Who knows....maybe the verbal history paseed on through the family somehow skipped a generation. I hope to continue speaking with all of you as time goes on. I also have another side of the family that hails from Glasgow.
Cheers everybody.
Sheryl
Massachusetts

[Adam Brown]

Who knows....maybe the verbal history passed on through the family somehow skipped a generation

Sheryl

In my wife's family a story of a relative's bravery under fire from the First World War actually turned out to be an action of another relative in the Crimean War - only 60 years before!

Hopefully with a bit more digging around the truth will emerge about Robert Sharp.

Regards

ADam