Despite signing up to Ancestry I still can't get a detailed death certificate, as I do from Scotland's People, to find death details of my grandad and his second wife. All I seem to find are pages of names and reference numbers which don't give me any real clue as to which John Gardner I'm looking at.
Not having searched for English documents in the past I may be going about it the wrong way. Can anyone suggest how do it, before I head off down south on what could be a wild goose chase, or perhaps do a search for me?
Born in Scotland, died in England; finding death details?
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Jake Drummond
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nelmit
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Re: Born in Scotland, died in England; finding death details
I'm sure somebody with more experience with English records will be along soon but my first question would be - do you know where in England he died and what was his year of birth?Jake Drummond wrote:Despite signing up to Ancestry I still can't get a detailed death certificate, as I do from Scotland's People, to find death details of my grandad and his second wife. All I seem to find are pages of names and reference numbers which don't give me any real clue as to which John Gardner I'm looking at.
Not having searched for English documents in the past I may be going about it the wrong way. Can anyone suggest how do it, before I head off down south on what could be a wild goose chase, or perhaps do a search for me?
Oh -another one -what was his wife's name?
Regards,
Annette
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trish1
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Depending on the dates for your search the death indexes for English records contain
name
district registered
age (from about 1860?)
date of birth replaced age 1970s
FreeBDM which is a site holding indexes created by volunteers has an index of deaths to about 1930. Post this date, you need to manually search the death index you will find on ancestry. This is only indexed by name/quarter from 1837-1983, so for the period post freebdm until 1983, if you do not know the approx date of death you have to manually search each page for each quarter. The ancestry index only has the first and last name on each page. If you know the approx date of death/location and the name is not too common you may be able to easily find it in the index.
Post 1983, the ancestry index is a full index and will return a month of death rather than a quarter.
Once you have the index reference (volume and page) you have to order the certificate from GRO - do not do this via ancestry - they at least double the price
You should also note that english death certificates do not contain the detail of Scottish ones. Parents are not given.
Freebdm
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ (a copy of their data is on ancestry)
Ancestry search for later deaths
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectyp ... d/bmd.aspx
GRO - to purchase a certificate
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Edit: Noting the post from Annette - if you would like to post details re your search, I'm sure you will get some help with same
name
district registered
age (from about 1860?)
date of birth replaced age 1970s
FreeBDM which is a site holding indexes created by volunteers has an index of deaths to about 1930. Post this date, you need to manually search the death index you will find on ancestry. This is only indexed by name/quarter from 1837-1983, so for the period post freebdm until 1983, if you do not know the approx date of death you have to manually search each page for each quarter. The ancestry index only has the first and last name on each page. If you know the approx date of death/location and the name is not too common you may be able to easily find it in the index.
Post 1983, the ancestry index is a full index and will return a month of death rather than a quarter.
Once you have the index reference (volume and page) you have to order the certificate from GRO - do not do this via ancestry - they at least double the price
You should also note that english death certificates do not contain the detail of Scottish ones. Parents are not given.
Freebdm
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ (a copy of their data is on ancestry)
Ancestry search for later deaths
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectyp ... d/bmd.aspx
GRO - to purchase a certificate
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Edit: Noting the post from Annette - if you would like to post details re your search, I'm sure you will get some help with same
Last edited by trish1 on Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jake Drummond
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That was quick!
My grandads name was John Bain (incorrectly given as Baine on his birth certificate) Gardner, born in Dysart, Fife in 1881 (father John Gardner and mother Agnes Bain) and he married Ethel Cooper in 1923 in Edinburgh.
We think he died during the war years, but perhaps later, and was survived by Ethel, his second wife who was born in Shere in Surrey, and who raised my mum in the area around Peaslake.
We think he lived latterly in or very near Leatherhead.
I can't seem to find the detailed search facility for English records, shown to be so easily used on Scotland's People, and would appreciate any pointers to help me find what I can.
We will be travelling down to the area during August to search for the graves of both John and Ethel, and will take a wee bit of Fife down to leave there.
My grandads name was John Bain (incorrectly given as Baine on his birth certificate) Gardner, born in Dysart, Fife in 1881 (father John Gardner and mother Agnes Bain) and he married Ethel Cooper in 1923 in Edinburgh.
We think he died during the war years, but perhaps later, and was survived by Ethel, his second wife who was born in Shere in Surrey, and who raised my mum in the area around Peaslake.
We think he lived latterly in or very near Leatherhead.
I can't seem to find the detailed search facility for English records, shown to be so easily used on Scotland's People, and would appreciate any pointers to help me find what I can.
We will be travelling down to the area during August to search for the graves of both John and Ethel, and will take a wee bit of Fife down to leave there.
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trish1
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- Location: australia
Hi Jake
If you think the death was in the war years - then you will have to spend a little time searching. Using the ancestry link I gave above
select death indexes 1837-1983 - it will take you here
http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?ht ... 3a7858%3a0
It is not like an index you are used to. If you enter John Bain, 1942 +/- 5 you will get a long list of pages that MAY contain the death of your John Bain. You then have to click on each image & manually search the page for your John Bain. It gets quicker as you get used to it!
Looking up Leatherhead, until 1934 it was in the district EPSOM and after that SURREY MID EASTERN - which may help to find the right record. The age will be listed which should also help.
I'll have a look at a couple of years 1944/45 to get started - you may like to try a couple of other years.
Trish
Edit - sorry I am getting names and dates confused
Looking for John Gardner 1942 +/- 5 (or whatever dates required)
If you think the death was in the war years - then you will have to spend a little time searching. Using the ancestry link I gave above
select death indexes 1837-1983 - it will take you here
http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?ht ... 3a7858%3a0
It is not like an index you are used to. If you enter John Bain, 1942 +/- 5 you will get a long list of pages that MAY contain the death of your John Bain. You then have to click on each image & manually search the page for your John Bain. It gets quicker as you get used to it!
Looking up Leatherhead, until 1934 it was in the district EPSOM and after that SURREY MID EASTERN - which may help to find the right record. The age will be listed which should also help.
I'll have a look at a couple of years 1944/45 to get started - you may like to try a couple of other years.
Trish
Edit - sorry I am getting names and dates confused
Looking for John Gardner 1942 +/- 5 (or whatever dates required)
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Jake Drummond
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I've been trawling through the records for hours every night Trish, and have spotted one possible John Gardner for 1943, but without parents or birth details it could be that he's is or is not my grandad.
I also found a photograph of a gravestone online which points to that John Gardner, and with his wife's name given, but she's given as Lilian, not Ethel.
Unless she used 'Ethel' but was given as Lilian she's not the right one. Again, records fail to show any real clues like parent's names.
We need to book for our caravan at a location near to where the likely final resting place is, hence my searches for any details we can find before we select a location. Hopefully I can the get to the local records offices who might be able to point me to the graveyard.
I'd hate to travel 450 miles and find I'm in the wrong spot!
These searches are really easy via SP for Scottish records, and pretty cheap too.
I'll be posting a related inquiry later, regarding John Gardner's wartime convalecence.
Many thanks for your help here, I really appreciate it.
I also found a photograph of a gravestone online which points to that John Gardner, and with his wife's name given, but she's given as Lilian, not Ethel.
Unless she used 'Ethel' but was given as Lilian she's not the right one. Again, records fail to show any real clues like parent's names.
We need to book for our caravan at a location near to where the likely final resting place is, hence my searches for any details we can find before we select a location. Hopefully I can the get to the local records offices who might be able to point me to the graveyard.
I'd hate to travel 450 miles and find I'm in the wrong spot!
These searches are really easy via SP for Scottish records, and pretty cheap too.
I'll be posting a related inquiry later, regarding John Gardner's wartime convalecence.
Many thanks for your help here, I really appreciate it.
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trish1
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First one I check gives this
Dec Qtr 1945 Gardner John B age 68 Surrey Mid E 2a 410
The age is out by a couple of years & there are lots of John Gardners on the indexes - but it seems close.
You can order certificates and ask that they be checked - this adds an extra fee, but if cheaper if it turns out to be the wrong one.
Trish
Dec Qtr 1945 Gardner John B age 68 Surrey Mid E 2a 410
The age is out by a couple of years & there are lots of John Gardners on the indexes - but it seems close.
You can order certificates and ask that they be checked - this adds an extra fee, but if cheaper if it turns out to be the wrong one.
Trish
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trish1
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garibaldired
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Jake,
If you ring the local record office they are usually quite obliging about giving details from the certificate so that you can make sure you're buying the right one! GRO who charges for checking.
Good luck with your searching.
Best wishes,
Meg
If you ring the local record office they are usually quite obliging about giving details from the certificate so that you can make sure you're buying the right one! GRO who charges for checking.
Good luck with your searching.
Best wishes,
Meg
Main family lines are Harpers from Midlothian, Fife & Kinross-shire, and Dobies/Dobbies from Midlothian. Also Strathearn, Stobie, Layden and Downie.
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trish1
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