looking for information on John scouller born in 1880 old m

[jerry]

i am looking for information on John scouller born in 1880 old monkland Lanarkshire,his parents were John scouller 1842 jeanie clarkston 1845
i have his birth certificate on it says his father is Robert scouller mother Jane scouller formally strathern maiden name clarkston
on his marriage certificate his parents are John scouller mother Jane scouller ms clarkston
on his death certificate his parents were father john scouller mother jane scouller formally strathern ms clarkston.
there seams to be a problem with finding his right parents i know that his marridge and death certificates are right but not sure about his birth have been in new registered house twice also on Scottish people and still cant get any answers .
the information i have is robert scouller b 1846 & john scouller b 1842 are brothers there parents were David scouller & Janet robertson
i cant get John b 1842 or Robert 1846 death certificates.
can anyone sugest what i can do next
thanks

[nelmit]

This looks like the family in 1881 -

Robert Scoular 35 Head, Mason born Whitburn, Linlithgow.
Jeanie Scoular 36
Isabella Scoular 4
Maggi Scoular 2
John Scoular 5 Mo
James Reid 15
Joseph Reid 9 (I don't know why are called Reid as they seem to be the sons of James Strathern and Jeanie'Janet Clarkston)

JOSEPH STRATHERN

Event(s):
Birth:
18 APR 1871 Old Monkland, Lanark, Scotland

Parents:
Father: JAMES STRATHERN Family
Mother: JEANIE CLARKSTON

This looks like Robert in 1901 at Clackmannan -

Alexander Syme 28
Isabella Syme 23
John Syme 4
Daniel Syme 1
Robert Scoular 57 Uncle, Stone Mason born Whitburn, Linlithgow.

In 1851 Robert is with his parents and siblings at Whitburn (including a John born 1842 who appears to marry Jessie Lumsden in 1862) -

David Scouller 43
Janet Scouller 41
Alison Scouller 19
James Scouller 18
Janet Scouller 16
David Scouller 14
Alexander Scouller 11
John Scouller 9
William Scouller 7
Robert Scouller 5
Margaret Scouller 3
Clark Scouller 1 6 Mo

Have you looked at the marriage entry in 1878 for Robert and Jean/Janet etc?

Regards,
Annette

[Russell]

Hi Jerry
And a warm welcome to TalkingScot

This is the kind of question we like. It may be only a question of spelling of his surname that is the block for you.
Coincidentally I have just finished looking for a Prof John Scoular here in Kilbarchan and there are various ways to spell it
Scoular
Scouler
Schoular
Schouler
Scoolar
Scooler
Prof Scoular's cousin was General Wm Schouler by the time he reached the USA.

When looking on Scotlandpeople you can use wild cards so Sc*l?r allows a search which will cover the half dozen variants I have listed.
The '*' will replace any letters between the c and the l the '?' will convert the single letter to another.

Let us know how you get on please. We like to hear that our efforts/suggestions/searches do pay off !!!

Russell

[jerry]

hi Annett
this is the same info i have but it is wrong as it should be John scouller not Robert scouller family
thanks anyway
jerry

Robert Scoular 35 Head, Mason born Whitburn, Linlithgow.
Jeanie Scoular 36
Isabella Scoular 4
Maggi Scoular 2
John Scoular 5 Mo
James Reid 15
Joseph Reid 9 (I don't know why are called Reid as they seem to be the sons of James Strathern and Jeanie'Janet Clarkston)

JOSEPH STRATHERN

Event(s):
Birth:
18 APR 1871 Old Monkland, Lanark, Scotland

Parents:
Father: JAMES STRATHERN Family
Mother: JEANIE CLARKSTON

This looks like Robert in 1901 at Clackmannan -

Alexander Syme 28
Isabella Syme 23
John Syme 4
Daniel Syme 1
Robert Scoular 57 Uncle, Stone Mason born Whitburn, Linlithgow.

In 1851 Robert is with his parents and siblings at Whitburn (including a John born 1842 who appears to marry Jessie Lumsden in 1862) -

David Scouller 43
Janet Scouller 41
Alison Scouller 19
James Scouller 18
Janet Scouller 16
David Scouller 14
Alexander Scouller 11
John Scouller 9
William Scouller 7
Robert Scouller 5
Margaret Scouller 3
Clark Scouller 1 6 Mo

Have you looked at the marriage entry in 1878 for Robert and Jean/Janet etc?

Regards,
Annette

[jerry]

Hi Russell
i have tried all the different spellings also used wild cards . the previous message from Annette is the info i have but it is the wrong family. don't know what to do now
thanks
jerry

This is the kind of question we like. It may be only a question of spelling of his surname that is the block for you.
Coincidentally I have just finished looking for a Prof John Scoular here in Kilbarchan and there are various ways to spell it
Scoular
Scouler
Schoular
Schouler
Scoolar
Scooler
Prof Scoular's cousin was General Wm Schouler by the time he reached the USA.

When looking on Scotlandpeople you can use wild cards so Sc*l?r allows a search which will cover the half dozen variants I have listed.
The '*' will replace any letters between the c and the l the '?' will convert the single letter to another.

Let us know how you get on please. We like to hear that our efforts/suggestions/searches do pay off !!!

Russell

[nelmit]

Hi Jerry,

The family in 1881 is defintely that of Jeanie Clarkston/Strathern/Scouler (married first to James Strathern 2nd to Robert Scouler) who has a son John born 1880 at Old Monkland. I thought you stated that this was your Johns mother on his marriage entry or am I mistaken.

Regards,
Annette

[AndrewP]

Hi Jerry,

This family left a few mysteries behind them. I have looked at some of the cerificates and put the following in order.

ROBERT SCOULER (stone mason) married JANE STRATHERN (widow) in 1878 in Old Monkland. His parents are given as David Scouler (blacksmith) and Janet Scouler ms. Robertson.

JOHN SCOULER was born in 1880 in Old Monkland to Robert Scouler (stone mason) and Jane Scouler, formerly Strathern, ms. Clarkston

JOHN SCOULLER married ELIZABETH W WILSON in 1901 in Blackridge. His parents are given as John Scouler (mason, deceased) and Jane Scouler, ms. Clarkston

ROBERT SCOULAR (mis-indexed as ROBEDRT) (mason _____ (illegible) died 1904 , Stirling, aged 56 , son of David Scoular and Jessie Scoular, ms. Robertson. Informant: John Scoular, brother. He is listed as married to Elizabeth ______ (illegible) .

JEANIE SCOULER died 1926, aged 84, in Motherwell; widow of (1) James Strathern and (2) Robert Scouler (stonemason); daughter of Joseph Clarkson and Janet Clarkston, ms. Wood.

JOHN SCOULLER died 1940, aged 60 in Harthill (E. D. Shotts); married to Elizabeth W Wilson; son of John Scouller (colliery engineman) and Jean Scouller, previously Strathearn, ms. Clarkston. Informant: James Scouller (son).

It looks like John (1880-1940) got his father's name wrong at the time of his marriage. Did his son James get John's father's name from the 1901 marriage certificate? (we will never know that for sure).

Assuming the 1904 death of Robert is the correct man, it looks like he had deserted his marriage. His son said that he was dead at the time of the 1901 marriage. There is no sign of a marriage of Robert to Elizabeth ____ or a death of Elizabeth Scouller that fits. If this marriage existed, I guess it was irregular and not registered, or could have taken place outside of Scotland.

Food for thought,

AndrewP

[jerry]

hi Annette
your not mistaken, this i where the confusion comes in his mother was jane strathern ms clarkson but his father was john not robert am still not sure!!!
regards
jerry

The family in 1881 is defintely that of Jeanie Clarkston/Strathern/Scouler (married first to James Strathern 2nd to Robert Scouler) who has a son John born 1880 at Old Monkland. I thought you stated that this was your Johns mother on his marriage entry or am I mistaken.

Regards,
Annette

[jerry]

HI ANDREW
thank you for all the info this is the same as i have . you are right when you say that there are a few mysteries just wish i could solve them.
thanks you again for going to trouble of looking out all info.
jerry

Hi Jerry,

This family left a few mysteries behind them. I have looked at some of the cerificates and put the following in order.

ROBERT SCOULER (stone mason) married JANE STRATHERN (widow) in 1878 in Old Monkland. His parents are given as David Scouler (blacksmith) and Janet Scouler ms. Robertson.

JOHN SCOULER was born in 1880 in Old Monkland to Robert Scouler (stone mason) and Jane Scouler, formerly Strathern, ms. Clarkston

JOHN SCOULLER married ELIZABETH W WILSON in 1901 in Blackridge. His parents are given as John Scouler (mason, deceased) and Jane Scouler, ms. Clarkston

ROBERT SCOULAR (mis-indexed as ROBEDRT) (mason _____ (illegible) died 1904 , Stirling, aged 56 , son of David Scoular and Jessie Scoular, ms. Robertson. Informant: John Scoular, brother. He is listed as married to Elizabeth ______ (illegible) .

JEANIE SCOULER died 1926, aged 84, in Motherwell; widow of (1) James Strathern and (2) Robert Scouler (stonemason); daughter of Joseph Clarkson and Janet Clarkston, ms. Wood.

JOHN SCOULLER died 1940, aged 60 in Harthill (E. D. Shotts); married to Elizabeth W Wilson; son of John Scouller (colliery engineman) and Jean Scouller, previously Strathearn, ms. Clarkston. Informant: James Scouller (son).

It looks like John (1880-1940) got his father's name wrong at the time of his marriage. Did his son James get John's father's name from the 1901 marriage certificate? (we will never know that for sure).

Assuming the 1904 death of Robert is the correct man, it looks like he had deserted his marriage. His son said that he was dead at the time of the 1901 marriage. There is no sign of a marriage of Robert to Elizabeth ____ or a death of Elizabeth Scouller that fits. If this marriage existed, I guess it was irregular and not registered, or could have taken place outside of Scotland.

Food for thought,

AndrewP

[nelmit]

I am 100% sure Robert the Mason was John's father as you have seen in his birth entry. All the evidence from the census records and the bmds that Andrew found surmount anything John said about his father at the time of his marriage.

Looks as though Robert and Jeannie were split before 1891 as here they are at Bothwell. I haven't been able to find Robert in 1891. Please don't ask me why they are called Reid but I'm sure it's them!

Bothwell, Aitkenhead 7
Jeannie Reid 47 born Bothwell
Joseph Reid 19
John Reid 10 born Old Monkland
Magie R Reid 12

I know you want to go by John's marriage but believe me I've seen a lot worse than a wrong father's first name given.

Regards,
Annette