1871 Census. Gg Grandparents missing for 10years?

[sheilago]

Just wondered if anyone could help solve this mystery. I was going over my old records, prior to a trip to Angus to do some research and noticed that I'd actually never found the birth of my gg grandfather, known as William McFarlane Guthrie. Being a little more experienced at this now - I decided to search for a birth of a William McFarlane and lo and behold I found him, born illegitimate son of Jessie McFarlan at Thornton, Glamis, Angus in April 1874. No father's name was given. Jessie then married Thomas Guthrie (blacksmith) on 1.1.1876 at Glamis and they had 6 more children.William always called himself 'Guthrie' and Thomas was given as his father on his marriage and death record, though this may not have been true. However I'd love find some clues as to whether Thomas was William's father. Strange to think I may not be 'who I thought I was' !

To try to work this out I thought I'd trawl the Census records. I know that neither Thomas or Jessie were living with their parents in 1871, but I can't find either of them. Jessie was born 18.9.1846 at Glamis, Angus. She was with her parents in 1851and 1861 in Glamis and reappears in Forfar married to Thomas Guthrie in 1881. She was a domestic servant and Wm's father (if not Thomas) must have been someone she met around this time, so I'd love to know where she was. Thomas was born around 1848 in Forfar. He also lived with his parents in Forfar in 1851 and 1861, but was not with them in 1871. Could they have been together? - This is probably romanticising on my part. So annoying of them to both disappear from the records at this crucial time!

If any of you clever people out there can shed any light or offer suggestions for research, I'd love to hear from you.

[speleobat2]

This might be Jessie in 1871:

Jessie Macfarlane
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Glamis, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 288
Registration district: Forfar
Civil parish: Forfar
Town: Forfar
County: Angus
Address: 41 Castle Street
Occupation: Domestic Servant
ED: 14
Household schedule number: 14
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1871_55
Household Members: Name Age
William Shepheard 57
Mary Shepheard 59
Mary Shepherd 31
William Shepherd 15
Jessie Macfarlane 22

Her age is off by a couple of years but that could be a transcription error or just a little fib on her part!

Carol

This came from Ancestry.

[speleobat2]

This is possibility for Thomas in 1871:

1871 Scotland Census 1871 Scotland Census
Name: Thomas Guthrie
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relationship: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: ForfarForfar, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 644/4
Registration district: Calton
Civil parish: Glasgow Calton
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 44 Clyde Street
Occupation: Blacksmith
ED: 77
Household schedule number: 67
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1871_131
Household Members: Name Age
John Callander 36
Sarah Callander 30
John Callander 5
William Callander 4
Thomas Callander 2
James Neaves 22
Thomas Guthrie 23

This is also from Ancestry.

Carol

[sheilago]

Thank you so much Carol,
I must try Ancestry. I have been using Scotland's People, but sometimes can't find things easily. These entries definately look like them. Thomas was obviously away visiting another blacksmith in Glasgow on the night of the census. Jessie, Interestingly was with a family called Shepherd.- I have lots of Shepherds in my tree (my g grandmother was a Shepherd - must see if there's a connection). Doesn't look like it sheds much more light on whether Thomas was the father of Wm- I suppose we may never know, but thanks for all your help.
Sheila

[speleobat2]

Hi Sheila,

Happy to help out! Ancestry does have some advantages when you're searching as long as you can puzzle out the strange spellings and deal with the cost. My sister and I split the cost of a subscription which saves on the searches for the actual certificates on SP. It helps to have both if you can work it out.

I think we all have a few of those unknowns in our trees. I guess we can't know everything!

Good hunting!

Carol

[Currie]

Hello Sheila,

Here are some odds and ends in case they come in handy.

Glasgow Herald, Thursday, October 19, 1871
FOUND, a small white Terrier Bitch. If not claimed in 3 days will be sold.—Apply John Callander, 44 Clyde Street, Calton.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, Saturday, September 13, 1873
SHEPHERD—DOIG.—At 41 Castle Street, Forfar, on the 11th inst., David Shepherd, master mariner, to Margaret, second daughter of Alexander Doig, Hilton of Fearn, by Brechin.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, Monday, July 11, 1887
At 41 Castle Street, Forfar, on the 7th inst., William Shepherd, sen, bookseller, aged 72 years. Funeral to-day (Monday), at 1.30 p.m. All ????? will please accept of this intimation ??? ?????.

Glasgow Herald, Thursday, October 19, 1893
SHEPHERD.—At 41 Castle Street, Forfar, on the 17th inst., aged 83, Mary Millar, relict of Wm. Shepherd, bookseller, &c.

Hope they’re useful,
Alan

[sheilago]

Hello Alan,
These are great to just add a bit of detail to the research. Do you have a subscription to newspaper archives? I would love to try browsing newspapers for certain ancestors ,but thought I'd have to go to an archive centre in Angus. I note that you live in Australia, so obviously you didn't!
Thanks for your help,#
Sheila

[Currie]

Hello Sheila,

The Glasgow Herald, Aberdeen Journal, Dundee Courier, and Caledonian Mercury are included in the 19th Century British Library Newspapers Collection which is available free to Higher Education and Further Education students and Staff in the UK. Do you know one of those whose shoulder you could look over?

Other institutions, including National, County, and City libraries etc, may subscribe, if they have the funds, and resident members thereof may get access from home. Perthshire doesn’t appear to subscribe at the moment.

There’s also the British Newspapers 1800-1900 site. It is a pay site but can be very good value depending on how it is used. It doesn’t have the Dundee Courier at the moment, but does have the other three Scottish newspapers. http://newspapers.bl.uk/blcs/

You could give this next one a try, register for remote access and pick up a card from Edinburgh. Something like that. It’s not clear whether they have the Dundee Courier, which was in the second release of newspapers. http://www.nls.uk/collections/digital/r ... tml#remote

All the best,
Alan

[speleobat2]

Sheila,

Just happened to think, did you check the Kirk Session records for William's birth? Illegitimate births show up in those records frequently.

Carol

[sheilago]

Thanks again Carole and Alan,
My daughter starts college this year, so maybe she will get access to the newspapers. I was just reading Alan's newspaper snippets again and noticed that the Shepherd's son (a mariner) was getting married in Sept 1873 from his parents house, where Jessie worked. He was not listed in the 1871 Census.Could he have been the father? - or am I jumping to conclusions, having watched too many period dramas? I just think that in those days if Thomas Guthrie had been the father the couple wouldn't have waited for 20 months after Wm's birth to get married. They were after all (at 28 and 29), quite old for those days when they did marry. I suspect that whoever was the father probably COULDN'T marry Jessie , as I imagine there would have been huge pressure to marry if it was possible. However I'm sure there were plenty of married or bethrothed men around who could have been candidates!
I will certainly try to see the Kirk Session records for Glamis church. I'll try to find out where they are held(probably in Forfar) and I'll have a look when I'm there in October.
Many thanks,
Sheila