Help- why did our Ancestors tell Porkies?

[joette]

My Mother has been searching for several years for the Birthplace of her Paternal Grandmother. In fact she started her search circa 1967- her Uncle was all fired up to help & did some research. He then told my Mother &her sister to stop as it would upset too many people. What was this scandalous secret? Yes youve guessed it his Mother was illigetimate!! A shock for a respectable Family of staunch Presb.background.To find out that your Grandparents had been living in sin(or not as I can find no record of them living together)
My Mother is certain that her Granny(a very strict woman who declared"if she had an ounce of Heiland Blood in her veins she would cut it out with a knife) had siblings & her Father his own buisness which was still in the Family circa 1943.
The first sighting of any certainty is in the 1881 Census when Maggie Leitch aged 16 appears as a Dairy Worker in New Kilpatrick.As my GGrandfather John Waddell is living with his sister Jean Gibson in a nearby Parish assume this is her(she gives Nitshill as her Birthplace).
On their Marriage certificate her Parents are listed as Archibald Leitch-Freestone Quarrier & Ellen Carr or Kerr Agricultural Labourer.
I have searched at GRO for any birth for a Margeret Leitch/Carr/Kerr,a Marriage between Archibald/Ellen/Helen or any sus.children with no success.
I know illigetimacy was a big taboo but it crops up so frequently & why should the children tell lies- I have a few words to share with my Ancestors when we meet up
Anybody with any suggestion? Iwould love to find this for my Mum who was the favourite grandchild of this resilent woman who came through a lot of Heartache & Hardship but raised a wonderful family with numerous descendants -where are you alll?

[Alison Plenderleith]

Hi Joette,

Hope I'm not confusing matters even more here but I did a search on the IGI for Margaret Leitch, father Archibald, all counties. There was a Margaret HELEN Leitch born 17.5.1863 in Alves, Moray. I know this doesn't tie in with the census birthplace and the age is two years out but the father is Archibald Keir Leitch and mother is Margaret KEIR.
It wouldn't be the first time time information on a marriage cert. wasn't wholly correct.
There was no marriage listed for the parents but that doesn't mean they weren't married. This Margaret is the last of several children:
James Keir Leitch b. 19.4.1851
John Jack Leitch
Andrew Burrel Leitch b. 8.4.1856 (twins)
Rose Leitch b. 7.3.1860 All born Alves, Moray.

This may be totally the wrong family but with the names may be worth further investigation. Or hopefully, one of the experts will come up with a better idea!

All the best with your search,

Alison

[joette]

Thanks for the info Alison I had noticed this entry before but always discounted because of GG aversion to the "Heilanders".I think her Father lived & worked in the Abbey Parish- Ithink it is him living with his widowed Mother &working as a Freestone Quarrier- all his siblings marry & leave home but he stays put. If this is the same one his Mother claims ARGYLLSHIRE as her Birthplace so I wonder if this is GG aversion to highland blood(would ARGYLL count as Highlands?). I have constructed a fantasy of these star-crossed lovers unable to wed because of ?Religious differences,Family obligations?Social divide? He is named on the Marriage Certificate as is Ellen Carr- there are two entries for the Marriage(under Leitch& Carr).They married in Eastwood so as Grandpa Waddell had no connection that we know of to the area presume she did. GGrandpa was an orphan from the age of about ten-he became a boy soldier before becoming a Master Mason like his Father. They eventually settled at 11 Nairn Street Dalmuir(I babysat for friends in the very house before it was erdeveloped) He made his own Headstone- really for his infant Daughter Annie.It was destroyed in the 1967? storm in OK cemetery .
I think it is so sad that people had to lie about their Parentage after all they are the innocent ones

[sporran]

Hello Joette,


she was born a little earlier than the 1881 census suggests. She was born as Margaret Kerr in Abbey Landward (address given as Nitshill) during 1862. There is no father's name given or a stamp for a later RCE for paternity. She can be found on the 1871 also in Abbey Landward as Margaret Leitch (8) with mother Ellen Kerr (35).


Regards,

John

P.S. notes for possibly puzzled reader. Porkies is from rhyming slang, so pork pies = lies. Middlesex (Joette's location) was a county in England that was finally absorbed into Greater London in 1966, but the Post Office, cricket and other sports continue to believe that it exists.

[joette]

Thank you so much you Jammy beggar(sorry for the use of so much slang it is the Greater London air whot done it)
Are there any siblings listed? My MUM is .Ihave searched for hours on fiche,microfilm etc the Researchers at Register House suggested she was born elsewhere etc. Talking Scot is amazing

[sheilajim]

Hi John

Glad that you explained what porkies were. I was thinking that this was about FAT ancestors!


Sheila

[Malcolm]

Hello
for sheilajim's benefit, porky is short for porkie pie. Porkie pie means lie. It's what we call rhyming slang. Here's another example for you, trouble and strife means wife. It's a London thing
MM

[sheilajim]

Hi Malcolm

Is there one for husbands?

Sheila

[Malcolm]

I can't think of one Sheila. I think most chitty chitty bang bang (rhyming slang) was devised by men for women. You can have horse and carriage for marriage. In this the h is dropped when spoken. Cockney's don't use short h's. How about treacle tart for sweetheart. Here you drop the closing t's. They don't use those much either.
Somewhere out there on the ether there will be a wind and kite (website) for you to read, if you're that way inclined.
Cheerio
Malcolm[/b]

[WilmaM]

I can't think of one Sheila. I think most chitty chitty bang bang (rhyming slang) was devised by men for women. You can have horse and carriage for marriage. In this the h is dropped when spoken. Cockney's don't use short h's. How about treacle tart for sweetheart. Here you drop the closing t's. They don't use those much either.
Somewhere out there on the ether there will be a wind and kite (website) for you to read, if you're that way inclined.
Cheerio
Malcolm[/b]

A Quick google gave me - http://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk

English :
Old man (father or husband)

Cockney :
Old Pot and Pan .....