McGinty Help

[lillyburn1]

Hello,
After doing some extensive research over the past few months I am stumped on finding further info on several ancestors.

The road block came when I discovered my great-grandfather's (Patrick King McGinty) parents.

Thomas McGinty and Ann (Annie/Honora) McGinty (maiden name King) - Married in Co. Sligo, Ireland in August 1848 according to one of their children's birth registration. I suspect the year of marriage is wrong as I find a lot of discrepancies around Ann McGinty's birth year. Thomas Mcginty is listed several times as a Shoemaker.

They move to Glasgow, Scotland and have the following CHILDREN, likely born in District of Clyde, Glasgow, Scotland... Parish Enoch.

1.Mary McGinty (Jaffray's Close, District of Clyde, Glasgow Scotland) born June 8th, 1860 - Have birth registration, MISSING any records or documentation of her after birth.

2.Thomas McGinty estimated birth 1862 according to a 1871 census record - MISSING birth registration, however he looks to be the witness later on his mother, Ann McGinty's death registration with an address of Bonhill, Alexandria in 1909.

3. Patrick King McGinty estimated birth 1866/67 (my great grandfather) - MISSING birth registration, but have marriage and death information. His marriage registration lists him as 33 when he gets married (birth 1877) but we believe he told a little white lie about his age since he shows up in several census records as being born in 1866/1867.

4. Catherine McGinty (Jaffray's Close, District of Clyde, Glasgow, Scotland) Born May 16th 1869 - Have birth registration, marriage and death information.

Thomas McGinty the HUSBAND is no longer listed on the census by 1871 and Ann McGinty is listed as widow. I estimate Thomas McGinty died sometime between 1868 and 1871. So I am missing any death information about him as well.

I do know that by 1873, Ann moves with her children to Strathblane and marries a John Cain. By 1881, on the census, Patrick and Catherine are listed. I assume Thomas the son was off on his own working and I have no idea about Mary since she isn't listed anywhere after her birth.

Any suggestions? Is it possible death or births were not recorded? What happens if a child or an individual was severely disabled/injured... did institutions record deaths? From reading information here: http://www.gla.ac.uk/departments/scotti ... ath/birth/ I assumed they had to be. I'm so stumped mostly on what happened to Thomas McGinty, Ann's husband.

Thanks so much! This research has become so addictive and interesting but with these McGinty's I've hit a

[nelmit]

Well I've been trying to figure this family out for over an hour now and all I've managed to get is a sore head!!

I can see Patrick with Ann in 1891 and 1881 at Strathblane but I'm not seeing them in 1871. Could you give the details of that census? The Ann who died in 1909 has a given year of birth as 1842 so I don't see how she could have married in 1848 right enough.

I wonder if there are 2 similar families.

Could you give the details from Patrick's marriage entry?

Regards,
Annette

[lillyburn1]

I'm glad I am not the only one with a sore head! Thank you for trying.

Regarding Patrick King McGinty's marriage information:

He married Rose Ann McDade on November 25th, 1910 in the District of Kelvin in what looks to be "The Columbine Chapel" - Roman Catholic Church.
Rose Ann is listed as 28 yrs. and living at 3 Burnbank Terrace
Patrick lists he is 33 yrs. (probably lying about his age) and living at Komson/Romson Place in Milton of Campsie. He is a printfield worker/engineer/mechanic.
Accurate listing of both their parents names and occupations on the registration document.

Regarding the 1871 Census:

I had been struggling to find the family so I entertained the idea of looking up Patrick McGinty and putting in an age range of 5-7 years old if he had been born around 1866/1867. Looking up the mother Ann or father Thomas has not worked in the past. Sure enough the family popped up living in the District of Clyde where they had been listed before at the same tenement house of Jaffrey's Close. Of course at this point Thomas is no longer listed and Ann is listed as widowed.

I was going to attach the records but it says they are too large. I'll see if I can learn to make them smaller for future use on this site.

Thanks again for spending the time you did looking at it.

Tracey

[AndrewP]

Hi Tracey,

The only one that I can find with any certainty is the death of Mary McGinty (born 1860). She died in 1860, but when searching for her death certificate, make sure that you select the option to include unrecorded age at death.

All the best,

AndrewP

[Montrose Budie]

I suspect that this could be one of those cases where a family moved back and forth between Ireland and Scotland on fairly frequent occasions; and once you get to the point where the kids were adults they sometimes also moved back and forth.

Either that or there's a really weird indexing mispelling of McGINTY involved.

mb

[SarahND]

I gave up on this one last night since I had a headache already The census pages in Jaffrey's Close (indexed as Jeffrey on Ancestry) must be in very bad shape, since just searching for the address (on Ancestry.com) comes up with many people who only have a first name or no name at all. The closest I can come to finding the family is this one, where Ann has become male and named George but there are possible slots for the children. Doesn't look very likely…

1871
Jeffrey ?? B, Glasgow St Enoch, Lanarkshire
George Mc Gaudy, 31, Head, born Co Sligo, Ireland, Mill Keeper
Mc Gaudy, 9, Son, born Glasgow, Scholar
Patrick Mc Gaudy, 5, Son, born Glasgow
Collen Mc Gaudy, 2, Daughter, born Glasgow
---, 30, Lodger (Male), born Glasgow
Cargan, 4, Son, born Glasgow, Scholar
Mary Cargan, 26, Daughter, born Glasgow
---, 57, Boarder (Male), born Glasgow
Low, 51, Lodger (Female), born Glasgow, Labourer

Could you put us out of our misery and give a hint as to who else we might find on the page?

All the best,
Sarah

[lillyburn1]

Hi Tracey,

The only one that I can find with any certainty is the death of Mary McGinty (born 1860). She died in 1860, but when searching for her death certificate, make sure that you select the option to include unrecorded age at death.

All the best,

AndrewP

This answered one of the mystery people! Thanks SO very much for the tip. What I found so interesting is that it is listed that she went to Dalbeth Cemetary (apparently now known as St. Peter's Cemetery) which is about 5 miles from the Jaffarys Place (Goosedubbs) area where she lived & died. Which opens up a lot of questions of whether the mother or father had family over that direction... I imagine the Mary's parents chose to have her buried over there so she would be with another family member. Its not likely that St. Peter's (Dalbeth) was the closest Roman Catholic cemetery to the District of Clyde is it?
Thanks so much again! Very excited about this find.
Tracey

[lillyburn1]

Thank you everyone for all your great input.

Sarah,
You are correct. The Jaffray's Close census has to be in terrible condition all around. Your find matches the ages on my copy.
The other names listed on the census look like:
Margaret Fallin (?) daughter 16 yrs. - Machine Girl (?) Co Sligo, Ireland
Bridget Fallin (?) daughter 13 yrs. - Mill - Co Sligo, Ireland
Patrick Fallin (?) son 10 yrs. - Scholar - Co Sligo, Ireland
James Fallin(?) son 8 yrs - Scholar - Co Sligo, Ireland

Ann(possible Annie, she was known by family by this name) McGinty - Head - Widow - 30 yrs - Mill Worker - Co Sligo, Ireland
Thomas McGinty Son - 9 yrs - Scholar - Lanarkshire, Glasgow, Scotland
Patrick Mcginty Son - 5 yrs - Scholar - " same birth place"
Catherine McGinty Daughter 2 yrs - Scholar - "same birth place"
Grace Cameron(?) 30 yrs - Widow - LODGER - Dealer (?) - Lanarkshire, Glasgow, Scotland
David Cameron(?) son 9 yrs Scholar - "same birth place"
Mary Cameron (?) daughter age ??? - "same birth place"
David Cameron (?) brother or boarder (?) 51yrs (?) Painter - Lanarkshire, Glasgow, Scotland
Joseph Law/Lew (?) _????___ 51 yrs (?) __????_____ Lanarkshire, Glasgow, Scotland

Mary Nelson (?) or Butler (?) - Head - Widow - 30 yrs - Occupation Hawther??? - Co Sligo, Ireland
Patrick Neson (?)- Son - 4yrs (?) Co Sligo, Ireland
Mary Nelson (?) - daughter 2 yrs - Co Sligo, Ireland
Letham Hunter (?) LODGER - Unmarried (?) - Co Sligo, Irealand
Peter Davidson - brother or boarder (?) Unmarried (?) 38 yrs - ___ Driver?? - _____?? Paisley ??

John Conlay (?) Head - 48 yrs - Laborer - Ireland
Mary Butler or Conley (?) wife - 44 yrs (?) - Ireland
Helen Conlay (?) daughter -14 yrs - Mill Girl - Lanarkshire, Glasgow, Scotland
Maureen (?) Conlay (?) daughter - 12 yrs - Mill girl - "Same birth place"

I decided to list who is on my copy from SP... Perhaps it will help someone else someday. Also, I have tried to attach the copy I scanned.
Apologies for any terrible interpretations. Some of these sort of documents sure are a good laugh to try and read.

Tracey

[nelmit]

I see her name as Eleanor in 1871 (well done Sarah finding that one at Ancestry!) which led me to Catherine's birth that I know you have.

So what does it say on Catherine's birth entry about her parents marriage?

I will definitely be having a look at the poorhouse applications for this family.

Regards,
Annette

[Montrose Budie]

Hi There

Thank you everyone for all your great input.

....snipped ............

Ann(possible Annie, she was known by family by this name) McGinty - Head - Widow - 30 yrs - Mill Worker - Co Sligo, Ireland
Thomas McGinty Son - 9 yrs - Scholar - Lanarkshire, Glasgow, Scotland
Patrick Mcginty Son - 5 yrs - Scholar - " same birth place"
Catherine McGinty Daughter 2 yrs - Scholar - "same birth place"[/b]
Grace Cameron(?) 30 yrs - Widow - LODGER - Dealer (?) - Lanarkshire, Glasgow, Scotland
David Cameron(?) son 9 yrs Scholar - "same birth place"
Mary Cameron (?) daughter age ??? - "same birth place"
David Cameron (?) brother or boarder (?) 51yrs (?) Painter - Lanarkshire, Glasgow, Scotland
Joseph Law/Lew (?) _????___ 51 yrs (?) __????_____ Lanarkshire, Glasgow, Scotland


....snipped.......

Hmmm ......

That rather knocks on the head my suggestion that the family moved back and forth across the Irish Sea, unless someone got things badly wrong ......


There's plenty McGINTY Birth records and several D records for father Thomas searching on the basis of 'M*cGIN*' or M*GIN*' both in Clyde registration district and Glasgow City as a whole, but it will need quite a few credits to check them all out. Probably less expensive to use someone with access to the DIGROS records in Edinburgh, or a satellite centre that has similar access, who can check them all in just a few minutes.

I wouldn't rule out the capital 'G' being misread, either.


On the 1871 census enumeration book page note the validation of the theory of a long-term TS poster "that birds of a feather flock together" as regards the Co. Sligo births. I'd put serious money on Co. Sligo appearing in the place of birth column in other nearby households, not just the same street, including, wha kens?, some relations.


Given the quality of the image that you have, you should request SP to send you a better quality image of the original, - they very often most willingly do so.


Note that it could well have been the case that Patrick adopted KING, his mother's maiden surname, as his middle name later in life, a not uncommon habit in Scotland in that era. In other words, he may not have been registered as
'Patrick King McGINTY'.

mb