Elizabeth Shand Birth or Baptism ~1790

[ronpsmith]

Can anyone advise where I could likely find a birth or christening record for an Elizabeth Shand (my 3xg grandmother)? I know from her death record that her parents where James Shand and Margaret Shand ("M S") and that she was born at Mortlach around the Banffshire and Aberdeenshire border. From her death and census records she appears to have been born between 1789 and 1796. I believe that she married my 3xg grandfather Robert Smith at Foveran, Aberdeenshire in 1818 and they appear to have spent the rest of their lives in that area.

[SarahND]

Hello ronpsmith,
I'm sure you've seen the christening for an Elspet Shand, father James and mother Margaret Shand in Mortlach on 14 Jan 1783, but that is probably too early to be your Elizabeth. This couple christened at least three more daughters in Mortlach: Anne in 1787, Margaret in 1789 and Helen in 1791 and a son James in 1800. That leaves a nice gap between Helen and James where Elizabeth would fit. I wonder if the christening book is missing those pages or whether James and Margaret couldn't afford further ceremonies and only came up with the cash for the birth of a son… Just imagining here!

If it were my family, I'd want to page through the book myself (at least virtually), but I suppose that's not an option for you unless you're going up to Scotland soon. You could always order the LDS film if there is a Family History Centre close by.

All the best,
Sarah

[ronpsmith]

Thanks Sarah. I had seen the Elspet Shand record (in the IGI i think). Do you know where the original book would be? Would it be in North-East Scotland or Edinburgh?

[ronpsmith]

Looking again over the records I found in the IGI, I see there are also two entries for a James Shand and Margaret Shand marriage in 1780. One is at Mortlach and another at Inveravon. Could this be because the same marriage is recorded at both partners villages (i.e. was this common practice) or could they be two different couples?

[SarahND]

It was common practice to call the banns in both places, so one of the couple is likely to have been from Inveravon. If you download the original pages from ScotlandsPeople there may be an indication of which person belonged to which place.

Since I don't think one can get access to the original books anyway, any place with the digital images of the book in question would be much like another. This would mean either NE Scotland or Edinburgh or, I believe, Glasgow now. Someone correct me please if I'm wrong.

Best wishes,
Sarah

[trish1]

I found the marriages also - as well as a possible birth

From familysearch https://www.familysearch.org/
I am assuming Margaret Shand's maiden surname was also Shand - there are other possibilities at the same time

Marriage (probably banns)
James Shand married Margaret Shand Inveravon, Banff 4 Jul 1780
James Shand married Margt Shand Mortlach Banff 11 Jun 1780

Presumably one of the couple was from the Inveravon parish and one from Mortlach.

Baptisms
To parents James Shand & Margaret Shand
Margaret 13 Jun 1789 Mortlach
Anne 18 Feb 1787 Mortlach
James 29 Jun 1800 Mortlach
Helen 9 Aug 1791 Mortlach
Elspet 14 Jan 1783 Mortlach

Trish

Edit: I hadn't read all of your posts Sarah - I just repeated all you found - sigh

[SarahND]

Hi Trish

Edit: I hadn't read all of your posts Sarah - I just repeated all you found - sigh

But you put it in a much more organized, clearly understandable-at-a-glance format!


Sarah

[ronpsmith]

Thanks Sarah & Trish.

I think I will look at joining Scotlands People as it sounds like that will be the best way to learn more. I have been using ancestry.com but their Scottish records seem limited.

Ron

[SarahND]

Yes, ScotlandsPeople is the only place where you can download the actual images of the records. The indexed entries you can see at either Ancestry or FamilySearch are good for narrowing down the search, but obviously don't have all the information on the original. Early records like the ones that interest you now can be either very minimal, or can give interesting additional details. It's worth checking, just in case.

Later records, e.g. the BMD records 1855 and later have a wonderful amount of information on them in Scotland. I assume that is where you got the parents information for Elizabeth, from a death certificate.

Best wishes,
Sarah

[trish1]

Hi Sarah

You are too kind - but I need to remember to read - before I type.

Hi Ron

I do agree with Sarah - for my searching
1. For pre 1855 records I use familysearch (linked above). The new version has taken some time to get used to - but it has lots of good information - Its BMD data for Scotland is mainly taken from parish records - so quite reliable. It also has indexes to the civil scottish records 1855-1875. I find this a useful source because it "equates names" e.g. finding elspeth when you specify elizabeth.
2. I use ancestry for searching the Scottish census records - transcription is rather ghastly but can often track names via first name search only
3. I then use ScotlandsPeople for the detail of parish records, civil records, OPR records, wills and anything else they may have/add. When you first start you can burn through a few credits until you get used to some search techniques - but it doesn't take too long to get used to all the options.

good luck with the search - although it often is the way in a large family, most have recorded baptisms - but the one you really want to see - does not!

Trish