Understanding old OPR

[BHHall]

Hi all
THis is my first post so hope all goes well. I am researching family history long distance (Australia) and am delving back into old OPR images via Scotland's people. I know what "of that ilk" means, but am not sure in this context. My problem is that Thomas Rutherford was not from Alneham, and I though it meant that. Any help please?
"Mr Robert Alder of Predrick in the Parish of Alneham & Isobel Rutherford daughter to Thomas Rutherford of that ilk in this parish were married." OPR Marriages 28/07/1713.

cheers Barbara

[StewL]

Hello Barbara

I have done a search for the phrase "of that ilk" and like you have found it is usually in regard to the parish they are in. My search involved looking at results that produced different people in different parishes.
My understanding (and I may be wrong here) is that it refers to the parish the person is living in, not necessarily the parish they were born.
If I am correct, it would apply in that context to your chap.
Someone who has better knowledge in this area should come along soon.

[Russell]

Hi Barbara and can I echo Stewie's welcome. It's great that our members across the world help each other out and having many folk looking at a problem from many different viewpoints can often resolve the most complicated problems.
'Of that ilk' can relate to parish but can also be used to indicate a direct family link to a particular family. Border families like the Rutherfords formed what would be viewed further north in Scotland as a clan with various associated septs or cadet families. My Rutherfords were from Melrose but I can find no definite links to the main Rutherford line. It was usually applied to the more prosperous main lines.

Russell

[LesleyB]

Hi Barbara
and welcome to Talking Scot.

Mr Robert Alder of Predrick in the Parish of Alneham & Isobel Rutherford daughter to Thomas Rutherford of that ilk in this parish were married." OPR Marriages 28/07/1713.

You have not mentioned which parish the OPR is from, because that is the parish where Thomas Rutherford is/was residing, not Alneham. Looking it up on the Family Search web site, the parish where the OPR is from is Jedburgh (see below), so that is the parish where "Thomas Rutherford of that ilk in this parish " is from. To me "of that ilk" has always meant of that family (but I may be wrong), so I'm thinking that the Rutherfords may have been well known one way or another, maybe through wealth, titles, reputation, social standing or land ownership?

Robert Alder
bride's name: Isobel Rutherfurd
marriage date: 28 Jul 1713
marriage place: Jedburgh,Roxburgh,Scotland
bride's father's name: Thomas Rutherfurd
indexing project (batch) number: M11792-2
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 1067943, 0102290


Best wishes
Lesley

[trish1]

Hello Barbara

Like most from Oz, researching their Scottish roots you will find the OPRs and civil registration records a delight - partly because of the cost in comparison to the exorbitant charges from the registries in Australia & otherwise because they are so easy to access. For your current query - I used google - as I often do - and the definition from wiki gives this explanation
"the earlier, Scottish use in the phrase of that ilk, where it means ‘of the same name or place' "
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ilk

It reads to me, in this instance - as meaning name - per the description given by Lesley.

Trish

[LesleyB]

Barbara-
Justa thought - given that there is a chance (from the wording of the OPR) the Rutherfords may be a reasonably well off family, have you searched the wills & testmaments on Scotlands People?

I'd use a wildcard or two in the search: R*therf*d* to cover all likely older speilling variations e.g. Rutherfoord, Rutherfurd and even covering for an extra "e" on the end...

The National Archives of Scotland catalogue ( http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/ )would be worth a search too e.g. could these documents refer to the same Rutherford family you mention?

• GD1/461/21 Part of extract disposition and assignation by William Eliot of London, merchant, and Thomas Rutherford of that ilk in favour of Sir John Rutherford yr. of that ilk, advocate, son of said Thomas, of the patronage of the kirk of Bedrule and of the chaplainry and altarage of St. Mungo founded within the Kirk of Jedburgh. Regd. Jedburgh Sh. Ct. Bks., 28 May 1713
  
  GD314/414 Copy extract registered disposition by Thomas Rutherford and instrument of sasine in favour of Sir John Rutherford of Rutherford in the lands and barony of Huntshill and Scraesburgh with the lands of Toftielands and Paddopool and others in the parish of Jedburgh, Roxburghshire. (2 items). 1710-1723

Looks like there is an estate or lands called Rutherford, so that would explain the "of that ilk" more clearly - the Rutherford you mention on the OPR is most likely of the same family who own this land. In which case Robert Alder is probably not a pauper either (!) and will most likely have left some trail too...will, testament, deeds, sasines or similar legal documents,

Best wishes
Lesley

[Alan SHARP]

Hi all
THis is my first post so hope all goes well. I am researching family history long distance (Australia) and am delving back into old OPR images via Scotland's people. I know what "of that ilk" means, but am not sure in this context. My problem is that Thomas Rutherford was not from Alneham, and I though it meant that. Any help please?
"Mr Robert Alder of Predrick in the Parish of Alneham & Isobel Rutherford daughter to Thomas Rutherford of that ilk in this parish were married." OPR Marriages 28/07/1713.

cheers Barbara

Greetings from Down Under [as well]

I have found a wealth of very diverse information, when researching using the surviving OPR records, that the LDS have made available to me over the last 30 years. Being only on dial up, unfortunately it can, at times, be slow going so I have not tried the names you are researching. However it looks to me, from the quote above, that in this instance the OPR record, records the marriage.

When it is the Bans that the Parish OPR records record, and the couple involved are from different parishes, it pays to look for a second recording of Bans, in the other Parish OPR, as there was no standard format, and one may be more revealing than the other. Often giving little extra clues to your search.

Alan SHARP.