Finding Birth Record of Elsie!.....

Post by **Jean Jeanie** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:16 pm

In the 1881 census I find Elsie McDougall(Fraser) with Alexander Fraser, wife, Jane Fraser and other Fraser children. She is listed as step daur.Elsie is aged 5 on the census. Therefore this puts her birth year as 1875/76.

I already have Alexander Fraser and Jane Fraser's wedding cert(1877) showing Jane's parents as William Fraser and Elspet McDonald(unmarried) Otherwise Elspet would be shown as Elspet Fraser m.s. Mcdonald.

Therefore Elsie was Jane's illegitimate daughter before her marriage to Alexander Fraser.

Elsie's first marriage cert shows her as Elsie Fraser MacDougall and her father is shown as William MacDougall and her mother as Jane Fraser m.s. Fraser. Her second marriage shows her parents as Alexander Fraser and Jane Fraser m.s. MacDonald. Elsie's death cert shows her as aged 59 at death in 1934. Parents shown as Alexander Fraser and Jane Fraser m.s. MacDonald.

So Elsie, at birth, coud be:-

Elsie Fraser(after her Mother's father, William Fraser) Jane used her maiden name as Fraser on other children's birth certs.

Elsie MacDonald(after her Mother's mother, Elspet Mcdonald)

Elsie McDougall(after her natural father, William Mcdougall)

It gets a bit confusing with Elsie's mother Jane being illegitimate and using her father's name of Fraser as her maiden name and then she marries a Fraser!

I have looked for Elsie's birth using all these names on SP. Cannot find one with parents William Mcdougall and Jane Mcdonald/Fraser

Anyone any ideas what to do next?

Jean Jeanie

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:21 pm

Try a search for SURNAME Fr* FORENAME El* in CROMDALE AND ADVIE for 1875, 1876

Unfortunately this record and one for Jane Fraser in 1875 isn't available online so you'll have to order it.

There are no El* M*cD* births in the area for that time frame so the Elspet Fraser in 1875 is looking good.

Doing a wee bit of jiggery-pokery with the 1881 census I found this:

Dwelling: Tenement No 1 So Street
Census Place: Cromdale, Elgin, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203431 GRO Ref Volume 128-B2 EnumDist 5 Page 8
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Peter MC DONALD M 65 M Glenurquhart, Inverness, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Farm Servant
Elspet MC DONALD M 55 F Duthil, Inverness, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Catherine ROSE M 27 F Cromdale, Elgin, Scotland
Rel: Dau
Occ: Farm Servants Wife
James ROSE 4 M Blair Athole, Perth, Scotland
Rel: G Son
Elsie ROSE 2 F Cromdale, Elgin, Scotland
Rel: G Dau

Now this would be fine except that Elspet ISN'T Catherine's Mother. AND a James and Alexander Fraser are witnesses to the Signature Marks! Catherine's mother was a Sophia? Grant.

The plot also thickens when there is no marriage between Peter and Elspet yet there IS an 1841 marriage between William Frazer and an Elspit Grant.

Think this lot need a lot more investigation and I'm already cross-eyed from hunting. I'll get back to it later.

Post by **Jean Jeanie** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:33 pm

Thanks Andy

I got so tied up with Elsie being a Fraser/Mcdougall/Mcdonald that I never even thought about her first name being different. i.e. Elspet. Jane, of course, could have called her Elspet after her own mother Elspet Mcdonald.

Sorry I don't get the connection with Jane Fraser born 1875. Jane would have been born around 1854, if she has given her correct age on her marriage certificate. I haven't been able to find her birth as her parents, William Fraser and Elspet McDonald weren't married and can't find any siblings either.
Jean

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:54 pm

Sorry, Jane Fraser MAY be a red herring but I usually find that folk with even a common surname, who are born in a small community, around the same time are related somehow.

Just lateral thinking overtaking the facts for a minute.

Post by **Jean Jeanie** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:09 pm

You wouldn't believe how many Frasers there were living in and around Cromdale, Inverallan, Advie etc.

When I found my Frasers in the 1901 census living at the station in Aviemore I thought I had found a pot of gold. Two other Fraser families were living there too! Can I get them connected to my lot? No is the answer. Although I am reasonably sure that one lot are connected, by the similar christian names. Just waiting on finding the right connection.

The wierd thing is there was a family of McDonalds living there as well. Thinking they might be connected to Elspet McDonald(Jane Fraser's mother)I had a look at them and would you believe it - they turned out to be the parents and siblings of a John mcDonald who was Elsie Fraser's first husband.

Let's hope that the Elspet Fraser you directed me to is my Elsie. She has given me grief for months.

Jean

Post by **Jean Jeanie** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:39 pm

Elsie's birth has been found!!

She is Elspet Fraser. b.25 Sep 1875 in Cromdale.

Got the cert to prove it.

Jean