Help with James Muir Death Certificate

Linda Malpass · Post by **Linda Malpass** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:55 pm

Need help with Maiden name of James Muir's wife ...... Margaret ??
also under cause of death, it says "no medical attendant ???? can't make out the next word.

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-279

Thank you JustJean for helping me set this up in the Gallery

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:40 pm

I'm going to stick my neck out with NOCHAR as her maiden name !

k

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:46 pm

Hi Linda
This guy has wierd writing - what is it with the letter R??

For some reason this one is opening in my browser so I can't zoom in to it. However the wife's name looks like Nochar or Nechar at a pinch? The place name in the next column would appear to be Neaphill, and the N is the same on both words.

As to the medical attendant - it looks something like, though I can't be sure - "No medical attendant lately", though I wouldn't like to bet on that one!

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:49 pm

Hi Linda
A quick check on SP seems to confirm that there are some folk by the name of Nochar. Can't get onto IGI just now - says its too busy.Puh!

Census 1861 10
Census 1871 14
Census 1881 21
Census 1891 2
Census 1901 1
Old Parish Records Births & Christenings 1553 - 1854 2
Old Parish Records Banns & Marriages 1553 - 1854 2
Statutory Register Births 1855 - 1904 16
Statutory Register Marriages / Banns 1855 - 1929 12
Statutory Register Deaths 1855 - 1954 28
Wills & Testaments 1513 - 1901 1

Best wishes
Lesley

CatrionaL · Post by **CatrionaL** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:13 pm

Ther are a few Nochars on the IGI congregated on the West coast. The dates are too late for the Margaret in question, which begs the question "Did Nochars come over from Ireland early to mid 1800s.

Catriona

Linda Malpass · Post by **Linda Malpass** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:52 pm

Thanks to you all for replying, I thought the same Nochar and no medical attendant "lately" ... weird? Anyways this certificate is giving me grief in more than one way. The 1871 Census shows James Muir (father in law)age 79, widower, born Ireland, living with his daughter Susan (Muir) McCracken, the McCracken family were living at Neephill, Kilmarnock from 1868 to 1881. On Susan (Muir) McCracken's death certificate, it states her mother as Mary Muir, ms Campbell, also another sibling, Thomas Muir, notes his mother as Margaret Muir, ms Campbell on his death certificate.

I have tried and tried to find the death of Margaret Muir, ms Campbell on SP, with no luck..... I guess I will need to try Margaret Nochar ??

James Muir states Ireland as his place of Birth on the census records, and Susan states she was born in Ireland as well.

Neephill, Parish of Kilmarnock had very few houses, so I figure this James Muir death in 1873 living at Neephill has got to be my guy, but the Margaret ?? does not add up ....... and the informant Richard Muir, son has me baffled too

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:45 am

I'm not convinced that the capital letter is "N", - look at the "W" in Widower on this entry and Widow on an entry above.........

The cause of death was supposed to have been certified by a doctor, - if not the entry "no medical attendant" made, - and if there was anything suspsicious the matter referred to the Procurator Fiscal, but for a failing 86 year old this obviously wasn't seen as necessary. And in this case the registrar decided to be a bit more precise and added "lately" !

David

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:04 am

Have you tried the 1862 Marriage cert of Richard Muir to Margaret Durham. It may have his mother's name written more clearly. CAMPBELL!!!!!

This is backed up more than a bit by the witness to Richard Muir's marriage, Thomas Muir who married in 1866 and Susan (Muir) McCracken who died in 1892 both naming Margaret Campbell as the mother.

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:09 pm

Just to confuse matters, while Richard's death register entry shows his parents as James MIUIR and Margaret MUIR MS CAMPBELL, his fisrt wife is shown Margaret STRAITON - her previous married name

, as she was a widow on marriage to Richard, and his second wife as Catherine SMITH, except that there ain't a matching statutory record.

The informant is a sibling, brother Thomas, - siblings are normally the most reliable of informants on death register entries .........

David

Linda Malpass · Post by **Linda Malpass** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:23 pm

Thank You Andy and David,

yah got me goin on Richard now

When Richard showed up as informant on James Muir death certificate, I didn't pursue him as I was really not that convinced that I had the right James Muir

Although Neephill was a bit of a give away, since that is where Susan (Muir) and John McCracken lived.

1. Thomas Muir (brother) married Mary Weir 1868 Kilmarnock (Andy where did you get 1866?, maybe just a typo)

2. Susan (Muir) McCracken died 1897, Burnfoot Rows, New Cumnock, her son William was the informant and present, and listed her parents as James Muir (dec) and Mary Muir, ms Campbell (dec), this time its Mary not Margaret, (Andy where did you get Susans death at 1892?)

Your right David when you say, just to confuse the matter !!

1. Got Richard's death 1901, Govan, 1st wife, Mararet Straiton, and 2nd wife Catherine Smith. Thomas Muir (brother) informant and lists James Muir and Margaret, ms Campbell as parents, both deceased

2. The 1881 census (Govan) shows Richard (40yrs) with wife Catherine (32yrs) she was born in England, children, James, John, and Thomas

3. Got a double wammie, with birth of twins, James and Thomas Muir, 1863, Ayr, parents Richard Muir and Margaret, ms Durham

4. Got the marriage of Richard Muir to Margaret Durham (widow), 1862, Ayr, his parents James Muir and Margaret, ms Campbell, her parents William Durham and Helen, ms Guthrie, both deceased. So I think Margaret Durham, widow was previously married, as Straiton ?

So I have been busy this morning on SP, still looking for 2nd marriage of Richard to Catherine Smith ?

But the big problem is finding Margaret Muir, ms Campbell death, on the 1861 census Riccarton, born in Ireland, she is 72yrs, James, 70yrs, they have grandchildren living with them, Richard marriage to Margaret Durham in 1862 has them alive, then by 1868 when son, Thomas married,in Kilmarnock, Margaret Muir is listed as deceased. So between 1862 and 1868 she is deceased, I have tried every which way, married name, maiden name, nothing! I have them in Riccarton and Kilmarnock, I wonder if she went back to Ireland ??

Well I've rambled enough, these Muir's are giving me a big headache