Questions on Death Certificate.....

[sheilajim]

Hi Everyone,

I finally found one of my ancestors Death Certificate. He was another John Dunn McDonald. I found him after paying many credits for John McDonald. Yesterday I simply ran an inquiry for ALL JOHN DUNN MCDONALDS Deaths on SP between 1855 and 1940. There were only 2, he and his grandson. Why didn't I think of searching that way before?

I have some questions on the Death Register for him though. He died in the Parish of Carnock, County of Fife in 1870. His death is registered on Page 11, and there are no other deaths listed on that page. Under his death there is a remark that looks like "See Docquement info" with somebody's initials. Does anyone know what this means? Also there isn't an street address given, as has been the case in every other Death Certificate that I have seen so far.

His occupation is given as Dyer & Carpet Weaver, which is different from what was given in other Docs, which was Cotton Agent (whatever that is).
Under his occupation it says (2) Da (and what looks like) Pauper.
Does that mean that he died a Pauper?

His age at death is given as 70. The informant of his death was given by his 2nd wife, Susan Hendry,who is listed on the 1871 census as 35
At least she gave the name of his first wife and his parents. I now know where the name Dunn came from.

I can find no record of a marriage between these two and why would she marry someone so much older than herself if he didn't have any money?

I cannot find his birth certificate or the marriage of his parents either, but thats another story.

Can anybody help me with this?

Thanks

Sheila

Searching for: McDonald, Dunn, Kay/Key, McLaren, McKinnon, Boyd, Kennedy, McVeany/Veany, Moran, Langhan, Findland

[LesleyB]

Hi Sheila

and why would she marry someone so much older than herself if he didn't have any money?

Apologies for being flippant but I can't help thnking maybe he was reasonably comfortably off before he took up with the 35yr old!!

Best wishes
Lesley

[AndrewP]

Also there isn't an street address given, as has been the case in every other Death Certificate that I have seen so far.

It is quite common for people who died in small villages such as Carnock to just have the village name listed as the adddress. Street names and numbers did not necessarily exist. (The postman probably knew where Mr McDonald lived - who needed an address.)

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[sporran]

Hello Sheila,


yes, he died a pauper.

The (2) and the "(two) R.P." in the margin refer to the clerical error underneath "Pauper". He had originally written "Widower of" and corrected that to "Married to". Any corrections made before the register was signed were annotated with numbers and initials, but once the register was signed corrections could be applied only through RCE (Register of Corrected Entries).

His entry is the last one for the year (29th December), so the Assistant Registrar has signed the book under his entry. I can not read the exact words, and they may be Latin.

By the way, Susan Hendry married in Dunfermline the following year, stating that she was a widow. I could find no previous marriage or her death in Scotland.


Regards,

John

[DavidWW]

The words that follow the last entry are:

"Vide Docquet Infra" which means, freely translated, "see the indexes that follow" !!, - one of the entries, and a listing of the clerical errors.

The initials are "H C G" followed by "Ex" or "Exr", - "H C G" being the peripatetic superintending registrar who signed off on this registrar's registers ...........

David

[sheilajim]

Thank you all for the Info

Thank you Andrew, John and David, for the information which has cleared up some things that I didn't know about.

To Lesley. Maybe he let her believe that he had some money, and she only found out he didn't when he died.

It is a shame for our ancestors, working all their lives and ending up without any money in their later years. I guess that they didn't have pensions for everybody in those days. It also makes me feel very thankful for what I have today. I am by no means rich, but I'm comfortable, with a wonderful husband, my own home, etc. Something very unusual would have to happen to make me a pauper by the time I'm 70 years old or much older.

The temperature here in San Clemete today is in the mid 70's F. I am going to sit on my deck in a few minutes and watch the spectacular sunset over the Pacific Ocean, then I will put up my Xmas Decorations. I am very content indeed.

Best Wishes

Sheila

[AnneM]

Maybe she loved him!!

Anne

[sheilajim]

Hi Anne

What a novel idea!

Regards

Sheila

[Malcolm]

Hello Sheilajim
I have looked at the Carnock/Cairneyhill census returns in some detail and was dissapinted to see that individual house numbers are not recorded. In the case of Cairneyhill which is attatched to Carnock and where my people come from, their homes are simply recorded as being on the south or north side of the street.
Your decendant's pauper status could be a front as I deduce from what you wrote that he was living with his younger wife in their family home. With little or no income would they not have been in the poor house?
As far as i know there was alot of weaving paticularly damask weaving in these two small places but I have not seen any evidence of carpet weaving. Unless carpet work came along afterwards, it may be that your man did this work from home as a privateer. Under these circumstances he might have accumulated some lolly under the mattress and chose to state 'pauper' so as not to attract attention from the excise man.
Malcolm M
PS I have a Hendry from this area as well

[sheilajim]

Hi Malcolm

I was puzzled by him being listed as a Carpet Weaver. Other listings have his occupation as Cotton Dyer or Cotton Agent.

The 1871 Census gives Susan's occupation as a Carpet Weaver also.
Perhaps they had some kind of business partnership.

Maybe my Susan Hendry McDonald is related to yours.

Regards

Sheila