thomas lyon.....

[LesleyB]

Hi John
Here's a little more on our Agnes. She had, it seems a shortish and rather sad life:

After her not too great start, she seems to have married on 28 April 1871 with son Andrew being born 3 months later on 5 July 1871 at 74 Dean Street, Kilmarnock (its that same street again!)

Sadly her husband Andrew died of smallpox on 19 March 1874 - so they'd only been married just under three years. Following that her son Andrew Fleming (I think he is her only child) died aged 9yrs on 4 December 1880 following 1 month of haemoptisis, which I think is production of sputum containing blood. Sounds horrid, and must have been awful for poor Agnes, her husband already dead, her only child clearly very ill and dying... you can't help but feel for her.

The 1881 shows:
- she is about 42 really. No other children shown with her...
Dwelling: 74 Dean St
Census Place: Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203602 GRO Ref Volume 597 EnumDist 20 Page 28
Agnes FLEMING W 39 F Loudoun, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Laundress
Mary VALLANCE W 68 F Loudoun, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Aunt
John THOMSON U 24 M Dundonald, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Boarder
Occ: Engine Fitter

- again Agnes is stated as born Loudon & Mary Vallance is of course Mary Lyon, b.1811, dau of Thomas and Agnes. (m. 17 April 1847 to Alexander Vallance.Mary died in 1882 at (guess where? 74 Dean Street, Kilmarnock)

Agnes Young Lyon or Fleming died on 24 July 1884, aged 46 years at ...74 Dean Street, Kilmarnock. She'd had a tough time, no tougher than many others of her time I suppose, but heck, it makes you glad to be alive in 2006...

Best wishes
Lesley

[john1022]

Mornng Lesley
Pouring rain outside so thought I'd check emails,so poor Agnes really
did suffer more than her fair share of misfortune.Now, after all the years
since then,we can only sympathise and hope she found peace at last.
As you say-times must have been hard for many at that time. A few years
ago I was in to metal detecting.One find was a silver cap for a walking
cane,which had a coat of arms engraving.I researched the family and
found that one of the house maids-a girl of 16,had taken a fancy to a pair
of gloves belonging to her employer. Her penalty?-deportation,and we
wonder why there are revolutions!.
My wife used to say 'why do we say 'Great ' Britain' when there was so
much injustice.
John

[john1022]

Ref message dated 29.04.06
Hello Lesley-have been checking the paper work and find I got my
Hepburns mixed with the Lyons!.
The Andrew and Thomas I referred to were ,of course Hepburns!.
I guess you noticed the gaffe-very kind. of you not to mention it.

Your message of 25.04.06, re 1841c:
Andrew Lyon 50
Mary " 45
Do you know when they married ?,seems to be quite a gap before children were born.
John

[LesleyB]

Hi John
No, it passed me by! If I take my eyes off my tree for a moment I get in a terrible mix-up with Parkers, Lyons and associated families as they are all called the same first names and there are Lyon siblings marrying Parker siblings which makes it even more complicated!!

e.g the Andrew Lyon below married Mary Parker, who was the sister of John Parker who married Janet Lyon, the sister of said Andrew!!

Andrew Lyon 50
Mary " 45
Do you know when they married ?,seems to be quite a gap before children were born.

I have a date of 11th December 1824 from IGI.
Children as far as I'm aware were:
Jean 1825 -1907, Thomas 1827 - 1855, Allan 1829, James 1831, John 1834, John 1836, Archibald 1837-1860, Agnes 1838, Allan 1840 most if not all, born Loudon ...but not yet checked on OPR - just gathered from IGI, SP and census data.

Best wishes
Lesley

[john1022]

Good afternoon Lesley

Thanks for prompt reply,hopefully you can now concentrate on your other
interests.You are an excellent tutor !.
We are having a mini heat wave at the moment-not before time.

John

[LesleyB]

Hi John
I recently looked up all the OPR births of the Lyon children and thought you might like to have note of them:

• Loudon OPR 603/2 fr 0388
  Record before states June 18th (a Sunday) [1797]
  Lyon Item Grizael lawful daughter of Thos. Lyon and Agnes Young in Nether newton publicly baptised
  
  Loudon OPR 603/2 fr 0404
  Record before states March 2nd (a Sunday) [1800]
  Lion, Item Janet lawful daughter of Thomas Lion labourer at Loudon & Agnes Young all publicly baptised
  
  Loudon OPR 603/2 fr 0421
  Lyon, Also Janet lawful daughter of Thomas Lyon and Agnes Young in Wall Hill born March first 1802 privately baptised March 8th
  
  Loudon OPR 603/2 fr 0443
  [1804]
  Lyon Also Agnes Lawful Daughter of Thomas Lyon day labourer & Agnes Young in Wallhill Publickly Baptised she was born upon the 22nd day of March.
  
  Loudon OPR 603/2 fr 0484
  Lyon 20th Decr.[1807] Catharine lawful daughter of Thomas Lyon and Agnes Young in Wallhill was born 22nd Ult and baptised publicly.
  
  Loudon OPR 603/2 fr 0532
  Lyon 10.[February 1811] Mary lawful daughter of Thomas Lyon ploughman and Agnes Young in Wallhill was born upon the 27th curs? and baptised publicly
  
  Loudon OPR 603/2 fr 0569
  Lyon 30th May [1813] James lawful son of Thomas Lyon , ploughman and Agnes Young at Loudon was born upon the 12 current and baptised publicly
  
  Loudon OPR 603/2 fr 0602
  Page headed 1815
  25th Octr. Archibald lawful son of Thomas Lyon Farmer and Agnes Young in Wallhill was born upon the 28th day of September last and baptised privately.

No sign of Andrew b. abt 1798, but I still think he probably belongs to this family somehow....if he is not a son, he is a close relative I'm sure.
He seems to have died between 1851-1855, which was a bit inconsiderate of him....

Best wishes
Lesley

[john1022]

Good afternoon Lesley
Thanks for baptisms info. Re 603/2 fr 0404.

all publicly baptised.
Presumably Thomas and Agnes were baptised along with Janet?.
What is the difference between a private and public baptism-I suppose
the public ceremony would perhaps have been during a regular church
attendance ?.

Re your message of 26Apr 06.

marriage of Allan Lyon,son of
Andrew Lyon and Jean Parker.Should this read 'son of Andrew and MARY
Parker ?-or am I missing something here?.

For the record, I have had a reply from Asst Ed PFH-pp Alan Stewart in
answer to my request for possible help locating info on Thomas, prior to
his marriage . Not much to report though. I had already tried the area's
he suggested.Though he did suggest it may be helpful to join East
Ayrshire Family History Society. John

[LesleyB]

Hi John

Loudon OPR 603/2 fr 0404
Record before states March 2nd (a Sunday) [1800]
Lion, Item Janet lawful daughter of Thomas Lion labourer at Loudon & Agnes Young all publicly baptised

"all publicly baptised" refers to all the kids who were baptisied on that Sunday, March 2nd 1800, and who were listed above Janet on that page, not the other Lyon kids.

I took it that those who were publicly baptised were baptised on a Sunday during the usual Sunday service, infront of the congregation, whereas March 8th 1802 (Janet #2) was a Monday, so I supposed a private baptism meant she was either taken round to the church and baptised, or the minister nipped round to the house to baptise her. Likewise for "Archie" 25th Oct 1815 was a Wednesday.

And yes, you are quite correct, it should read:
An Andrew Hepburn (dairyman) of 27 Dunbarton Road, Glasgow was present at the marriage of Allan Lyon, son of Andrew Lyon and Mary Parker to Isabella Dunlop (dau of William Dunlop & Mary Aiton?) at West George Street Glasgow on 26th May 1863.

Best wishes
Lesley

[john1022]

Morning Lesley
I figured the exlanation could be as you have shown,but the 'all baptised,
bit, had me guessing!.

I wonder if there is a link between the lack of info, prior to their marriages
of Thomas and Andrew -stupid question, but should'nt they have birth
certificates?.
Enjoy you day. John

[LesleyB]

Hi John

... but should'nt they have birth certificates?.

Not necessarily, not back then. Many children were not registered.

It seems odd that Andrew appears to be the only child missing from the OPR though. Many things point to him being a child of this Lyon family but as he seems to be definately dead by 1855 (deceased on death entry of his son Thomas in 1855, and no sign of him on SP) there may be no way to prove it absolutely. If only the 1851 had stated "brother-in-law" instead of "visitor" we'd know for sure. His children belong in my tree anyway as he was married to Mary Parker, sister to my 3rd gr grandfather John Parker, but it would be good to have him pinned down a bit more conclusively.

Thomas senior remains a bit of an unknown. All we know for sure is that he was definately there...or we wouldn't be here! The 1841 census suggests he was born "in county"... will keep you posted if I make any progress with that one.

best wishes
Lesley