Coroners Records.....

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:17 pm

Can anyone tell me if coroners records are available to view online?

I have two references to coroners reports that I would like more information on,

Death 1912, 4 week old Edward Craig McNeil, Port Glasgow, coroners entry, vol 5, page 112, 20.01.1912.

Death 1917, 11 week old John Melville McNeil, Port Glasgow, coroners entry, vol 6, page 95, 31.07.1917.

Any help for further information would be appreciated.

Kathy

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:14 pm

Hi Kathy,

I guess the reference numbers that you are quoting are from the left margins of these death certificates. If so, it is not coroners' reports that you are looking for, but entries in the Register of Corrected Entries (RCEs). These are held in New Register House, Edinburgh and are scheduled to be on ScotlandsPeople in the future (later this year?). In the meantime, you should be able to get a copy by contacting ScotlandsPeople by filling in one of their contact forms - follow link "contact us" on their website.

See also an explanation given previously on TalkingScot.
viewtopic.php?t=5087

All the best,

AndrewP

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:39 pm

Thank you AndrewP, you are correct, it was a notation on the left side of the death entry.

I will do as you suggest.

Thanks again.

Kathy

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:51 pm

Kathy

All that you will find in these RCE entries is the Procurator Fiscal's office conclusion/confirmation on the place and cause of death.

Only in certain circumstances did the PF refer the matter to the local sheriff who would then hold a Fatal Accident Inquiry (there is no such person as a coroner in Scotland). Search elsewhere on this site for more details of FAIs, - all of the historical ones are now held by National Archives of Scotland in Edinburgh.

While you might get a little bit more info from the RCE entry, the most valuable aspect can be that there was an FAI. Prior to the date when FAIs were brought in, the only other possible source would be newspapers.

David

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:54 pm

David,

I will do a search as you suggested for more info on FAI.

Also, I have taken AndrewP suggestion and used the "Contact Us" for SP, I will let you know if I have a reply, if no further infirmation is available from SP, I will post the entry for John on TS, as I can't decipher the cause of death.

I would love to be able to do a newspaper search, but I don't think this is available online.

I spent a small furtune on SP last evening, trying to round up the children of Samuel Craig McNeil & Agnes Orr, I have very little information, only that there were several, and most died young, hence the interest as to why!

My search is also hampered by the fact that at this stage the name is sometimes McNeil then later as McNeill, the births are between 1900 & 1917, it would be so much easier if a search could be done by the parents names.

Kathy

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:38 am

Hi Kathy

Just a quick observation....you mentioned spending a small fortune hunting for McNeil and McNeill and other possible variable spellings. I can't help but wonder if you're aware of the method of using wildcards to assist your searching?

If you search using M*cN*l for example it would pick up all MacNeil, MacNeill, McNeil, McNeill, or even McNiel McNeal etc etc. Unfortunately this would also pick up things like McNicol (if it exists) so perhaps the returns would be too numerous. I tend to favor going for the most search returns in one search and even getting 2 or 3 pages worth at 1 credit each page than searching on each individual spelling when there might be 6 or more possibilities! You can adjust the wildcard placement to suit your needs but note that the use of the asterisk (*) stands in for none, one, or several letters and the use of question mark (?) stands in for one letter only.

You may have already read up on this but if not here is a link to the ScotlandsPeople website that defines the search wildcard search tecnhiques to use on their website. http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... ?r=551&663 Hope this might assist you in obtaining more results. It's truly amazing sometimes to learn just how dreadful some of the spellings were and how oftentimes the one record we can't find is hiding in the indexes behind an odd spelling!!

Best wishes
Jean

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:48 am

Hi Jean,

I was aware of using astricks, but thanks for the suggestion, my problem is I have two areas Port Glasgow & Greenock, two spelling of the same name, and no idea of what christian names I am looking for, therefore, on this particular family, its a process of elimination, it would be so much easier, and cheaper to be able to search using the parents names.

The other problem is, I know there are other births after 1905, but not available online, at this stage.

Kathy

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:28 pm

Hi Kathy

I can't agree with you more about a parent search feature and the lack thereof.

As far as online searching beyond the closure periods....at least every year we "earn" a year

but the waiting is intense

There is hope that soon? SP will at least provide current indexes to all statutory records. One small leap for SP...one giant leap for distance genealogists.

Best wishes
Jean

Post by **emanday** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:38 pm

Even if the SRI Birth search results gave the parents names, that would be a real help.

With Mc or MacDonald and Stewart in my lot, even pinning it down to year of birth and/or parish, if I'm lucky enough to know that, can still come up with a long list of possibles.

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:17 pm

emanday wrote:Even if the SRI Birth search results gave the parents names, that would be a real help.

With Mc or MacDonald and Stewart in my lot, even pinning it down to year of birth and/or parish, if I'm lucky enough to know that, can still come up with a long list of possibles.

The basic problem is all that we can search is the information that was extracted and is in the indexes, not all the info on the register entries. Wait a few years until 2028 and 2029 and there's the additional info in the indexed info of the mother's maiden name

Meanwhile I'm afraid that it has to be accepted that we have what we have, and that it would be a massive effort to re-index all the birth register entries from 1855 to 1905, - that written, you will ocassionally see another surname on the results list for a birth search at NRH, - where the index is being checked for whatever reason, the index is updated by adding the mother's maiden name, - however this field cannot as yet be viewed on ScotlandsPeople (it can at NRH).

It has been suggested by the SP UserGroup that GROS give consideration to using volunteers to add such info to the statutory indexes, as well as complementary info to the census indexes, - e.g. occupation and place of birth.

David

PS just in case anyone suggests using OCR technology, it's been tried and has a long, long way to go before it can reliably handle the handwriting involved, both good and bad, never mind the fading and other deterioration that has taken place over the decades.

Never mind also the fact that it's unlikely that GROS would permit the original registers to be used, so that a further aspect that OCR would have to cope with would be the loss of quality via the need to work from the microfilms/microfiche.

Modern microfilming technology is very tolerant of variation in the quality of the images throughout a register book and can be set up to adjust automatically to changes in the quality of the original material being filmed on a page by page basis, but the microfiliming technology in use when the Scottish registers were filmed had to be set up in advance on the basis of an assessment of the average quality of the originals. In other words, the set up used for any one register was constant throughout.
dww