John Young of Uphall - Parental Conundrum

[Rockford]

Hi everyone,

This is a long one, so bear with me k !

My gg grandfather, John Young was born around 1854.

His first marriage to Jane Craig in Uphall on 01/01/1872:

John YOUNG [18]
Usual Residence: Parish of Cambusnethan, Wishaw
Occupation: Not Given

Parents:
Father: James Young. Occupation: Sawyer
Mother: Not named.

His second marriage to Louisa Waugh King [after Jane's death] in Uphall on 31/12/1898:

John YOUNG [46], Engineer
Usual Residence: Broxburn

Parents:
Father: Not named.
Mother: Jessie Allan. Occupation: Domestic Servant

His death certificate on 16 September 1899:
John YOUNG [48], Engineer. Married to Louisa Waugh King.

Parents:
Father: James Young. Occupation: Sawyer
Mother: Not Named!!


The issue is complicated/muddied even further by the 1871 Census for Cambusnethan [John's alleged residence at the time of his first marriage in 1872], as the only John Young I can find who is the right age doesn't fit in terms of his parents names, occupation etc.

I know that John's first wife was definitely Jane Craig, as I have my great grandmothers [their daughter's] marriage certificate from 1902. This means that I know that the marriage certificate for JOHN YOUNG in 1872 is the correct person. I also know that John remarried after his first wife's death and I know from his daughter's marriage certificate that he himself died before 1902. Therefore, I am confident about his death certificate from 1902. Taking both of these, I'm confident that Louisa Waugh King was his second wife, as this is reinforces the information on his death certificate. In addition, there were only two John Youngs who died in Uphall between 1872 and 1902 and the second one definitely wasn't him, as none of the information matches.

My question is this:

WHO WERE JOHN'S PARENTS!!!! and where did he appear from in 1872. I can't understand why he would have named only his father at one marriage and only his mother at his second, partucularly given that his death was so soon after his second marriage at which he himself presumably named his mother.

Can anyone shed light on this???

Brian

PS. The manner of his death is also a mystery, as he died with 9 months of remarrying 'probably from natural causes' . There is also an RCE entry "Vol 2, Page 4, 7th Oct 1899", so if anyone was willing to spend a few spare minutes at NRH, I'd be grateful.....

[Bertha]

Brian
Unless anyone beats me, I will try and look at the RCE on Wednesday, I have 1 or 2 of these myself to look at.
Do you know if John Young had a son James by the way? I have a distant rellie James Young who married my gran's auntie in Edinburgh.
Regards
Bertha

[Rockford]

Bertha,

Thanks for the offer of looking up the RCE for me, although don't soak up your own research time, though, if you've got other ones to do..

I don't know if John ahd a son called James, the only children I've got so far are John, who registered his death, who was living in Bathgate at the time, and Mary Allardice Young b. 1885 my great grandmother. However, if his father was called James Young, I'm sure that there will be a James somewhere - I'll let you know if I find anything......

Best wishes

Brian

[Bertha]

Brian
It will be know problem. Apart from my 2RCEs there is nothing prioritised as I will be going in again at the end of Feb and hopefully once a month for the rest of this year.
Bertha

[SarahND]

Hi Brian,
Do you have John in the 1881 and 1891 censuses? If so, where do they say he was born? Just trying to find him in the 1861, but any clues you have would help to narrow it down.
Regards,
Sarah

[Rockford]

Do you have John in the 1881 and 1891 censuses?

Hi Sarah,

In 1881, his birthplace is given as Cambusnethan, Lanark. In 1891, he is listed as having been born in Dalziel, Lanark. However, the only John Young born in Cambusnethan in the right timeframe (1855-1857) doesn't seem to be him as none of the parents match. There is an OPR for Cambusnethan showing a John Young born in 1852, but the parents are John Young and Helen Marrow, again no match.

For Dalziel, there are no John Youngs listed as being bron between 1855 and 1860, or in the OPR between 1850 and 1854.

In 1871 Census the only John at the right age isn't him, and there aren't any John Youngs in the 1871 Dalziel Census.

The 1891 Census also shows that several of John & Janet's children were born in Cambusnethan, and some more were born in Uphall.

I hope someone can help me, my forehead's sore......

Best wishes

Brian

[nelmit]

Hi Brian,
Do you have John in the 1881 and 1891 censuses? If so, where do they say he was born? Just trying to find him in the 1861, but any clues you have would help to narrow it down.
Regards,
Sarah

Hello Sarah,

This looks like John and family in 1881.

Dwelling: 104 Greendykes Rd
Census Place: Uphall, Linlithgow, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203709 GRO Ref Volume 672 EnumDist 4 Page 11
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John YOUNG M 29 M Cambusnathen, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Engindriver
Janet YOUNG M 27 F Shotts, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Wife
John YOUNG 9 M Cambusnathen, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Annie YOUNG 7 F Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Jessie YOUNG 3 F Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Jeannie YOUNG 9 m F Uphall, Linlithgow, Scotland
Rel: Daur

Kind regards,
Annette M

[SarahND]

Thanks, Annette & Brian,
Unfortunately, the birth information doesn't seem to be helping, I'm afraid!
Can't find any, where everything fits, but here are a variety of possibilities for you to think about.

Since Janet/Jean/Jane/Jessie were often interchangeable, this might be his mother...

1861
22 Graeme Sqr, Glasgow St John
James Hunter, 50, head, cotton weaver, born Ireland
Jane Hunter, 41, wife, cotton winder, born Ireland
George Hunter, 15, son, callenderer, born Glasgow
William Hunter, 10, son, potter, born Glasgow
Margaret Early, 60, mother-in-law, cotton winder, born Ireland
Mrs Janet Young, 24, lodger, cotton winder, born Glasgow
John Young, 7, lodger, scholar, born Glasgow
Janet Young, 4, lodger, born Glasgow

Another one, born in Dalziel, but his mother is Marion:

Kirkland Row, Dalziel, Lanark
Marion Young, 36, head, tambourer, born Dalziel
Betty Young, 10, daughter, born Dalziel
John Young, 8, son, scholar, born Dalziel
Charel Broadwood, 48, boarder, blacksmith, born Douglas, Lanark

Or, here is another possibility in Kinnaird St, Wick, Caithness, but born in Glasgow and his mother is Mary Swanson...
Robert Mulliken, 40, head, Ropemaker, born Wick, Caithness
Isabella Mulliken, 40, wife, born Wick, Caithness
Margaret Mulliken, 10, daughter, born Wick, Caithness
George Mulliken, 9, son, born Wick, Caithness
William Mulliken, 8, son, born Wick, Caithness
Helen Mulliken, under 10 mos., daughter, born Wick, Caithness
Mary Swanson, 45, wife's sister, born Glasgow
John Young, 8, wife's sister's son, born Glasgow

This one was supposed to have been born in Carnbee, Fife according to the census, but his mother has the right name and he is a stepson:

Shoregate, Crail Burgh, Fife
Alexander MacKie, 35, head
Janet MacKie, 35, wife
John Young, 9 stepson, born Carnbee, Fife
Jessie MacKie, 4
James MacKie, 3
Alexander MacKie, 1

Then, I searched for anyone named James Young who was a sawyer in 1861. Only two results, one 55 in Shettleston, Lanarkshire (born in Cadder), married to Agnes S Young with 4 daughters; the other age 60 in Blairgowrie, Perthshire (born in Crieff), listed as father-in-law to James Nicoll

Searching for James Young, sawyer in 1851 there are three results:
James Young age 56 in Dundee, with wife Janet and children James, 30, David, 22 and John, 16

James Young age 50 in Annan, Dumfries, with housekeeper Agnes Smith

James Young age 32 in Paisley, with wife Maria, mother Jane and children Robert (3) & Eleanor (1)

I'm afraid none of this helps very much, but I have noted it all down just in case...
Regards,
Sarah

[nelmit]

There is this James Young in 1881 who is a sawyer but his wife seems to be Mary Reid. I can't find a marriage for them and I really don't think there is a connection but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

Dwelling: 46 Main Street
Census Place: Cambusnethan, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203621 GRO Ref Volume 628 EnumDist 17 Page 3
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
James YOUNG M 53 M Wishaw, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Sawyer
Mary R. YOUNG M 52 F Hamilton, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Wife
George YOUNG U 20 M Wishaw, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Clerk At Goods Station
Lizzie YOUNG U 15 F Wishaw, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Agnes YOUNG U 12 F Wishaw, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar

Regards,
Annette M

[Rockford]

Sarah & Annette

Apologies for the delay in replying - my family have been feeling neglected of late and I had to redress the balance!

Thanks for your all your help with the census searching - I'm not sure that it gives me the asnwers, but I'm going to spend some time this weekend looking at the various possibilities and trying to piece bits and pieces together.

I'll keep you posted!

Brian