Isa Reckie's Death Reccie

[grannysrock]

Last night I discovered my GGGG grandmother Isabella Fortay née Reekie or Reckie was stiil alive in 1861 in Ceres , age given as 70 , pob unknown. She was at the same address as in 1851, when she was shown under her maiden name and as having been born in Auchtermuchty about 1784. I know its her because my infant GG grandfather and his sister are with her in 1851. I have always presumed she was the Isabella Reckie who married Alexander Fortay in Cupar 25 May 1822 . I think this is the only Reekie-Fortay marriage on the indices.

So where and when did she die ? I can't see any sign of her in 1871.
I did amazingly find the death of another Fortay née Reekie lady in Largo , but her name was Mary( widow of John Fortay) and nothing else seemed to match up. Searching on maiden or married name with all wildcards I can imagine has not found me the right person Any ideas ?

Sally

PS the Largo death has me very confused. I cannot find the marriage of Mary Reekie to John Fortay nor any sign of this woman on census.
So could the informant , a son-in-law just be terribly confused ? Might she really be Isa ? In which case , who is the son-in-law ? His name is David ( it could be Daniel) Robertson. I can't find s Robertson - Fortay marriage either

[JustJean]

Hi Sally

No great revelations yet. I can tell you all about the ROBERTSONS though. Or at least what surely appears to be them. Can't believe they are going to intersect with your FORTAY line. When the Mary Fortay died in Largo it was at New Gilston and David Robertson s-i-l is informant. Well the only David Robertson living in New Gilston Largo in 1871 is 60 and has a wife named Isabel age 52. Way hey...got all worked up .....but alas for nothing. This same couple seems to be right there in Largo in 1861 with a houseful of children all born Largo but unfortunately none of which are born post 1855....so off to the OPR indexes and we find mum's name is Isabella SHORT. It's also consistent that she is born in Newburn. A look for her death finds her right there in Largo and a clever s-i-l has informed that her parents were Peter SHORT and Jane ms IRELAND. Just for laughs I looked for hubbies DC to see if maybe his mum had a FORTAY streak. This is the funny part. He died some 6 or 7 years previous to Isabella...and same s-i-l informant comes up with his mum's name as Jane ms IRELAND. Good man!!!! =D> (obviously not sent with a written note the but which one is correct??? ) Sooooooooo just to prove that there still might not be a connect to your line I looked for births with Peter SHORT as daddy early 1800's. There were 2....one looks to be Isabel b. 2 April 1815 in Newburn. Her mum's name was listed as Margaret DUNCAN. So that family seems secured now. But heck if I can tell you why David ROBERTSON would record the death of Jane FORTAY REEKIE. Unless.....he was her step son? Would that fit?? Do any of these names I've tossed out there make any sense to you???


Best wishes
Jean

[grannysrock]

Jean

Thank you ever so much for trying to help me . I'm scared you will have had a sore head today - it is bewildering this one.

You have done a great job on getting the right David Robertson and family . Trouble is I can't make out how they are related to any Reekie or Fortay either.

Possible theories are :
1) Before Peter Short was married to Margaret Duncan (or aftar), he was married to Mary . Neither of Mary's marriages were recorded nor any offspring. Everytime the enumerator came round, Mary hid in the cupboard. She hated bureaucracy with a passion.
2) Its David's son David who has taken up with a daughter of Mary, who shares her mother's hatred for paperwork.
3) David can sign his name, but cannot read or hear and has an unusual accent which makes Margaret Duncan sound like Mary Reekie and Peter Short sound like John Fortay.
4) David just likes signing things . He got a new pen for his birthday. He's the phantom signer of Lower Largo. ( Goes back to check Mary's death record to see if he claims any more rellies there . Erm No ).
5) I've missed something.

All things considered, I'm going with 5.

As for tying in any names with my tree , well the closest would be Ireland.

TREE
...............Robert ..= ..Margaret
............... Harley....... IRELAND
........................;.. |
Robert....= Ann/Agnes .............. Alexander?...=.. Isabella
Forrester.....Harley..................... Fortay............. Reekie
.............|.................................................|
............John Scott Forrester ... = Elizabeth Fortay

Elizabeth died before 1851 , so I don't have much info about her.
The only proof that Isa was her mother comes from the 1851 census
entry which has Isa looking after John/Elizabeth's two children.

I'm going to have my cup of Ovaltine now . Perhaps it will give me fresh inspiration .

Sally

[JustJean]

good lord hand me a tissue!! Will study your analyses and respond (when I'm able )

Best wishes
Jean

[JustJean]

Hi Sally

Ok…I’m now composed and have had 48 hours for a good strong think. (that was think and not drink ) The way I see it now is no more clearly than I saw it before. Here’s what I’ve concluded…….

I can’t believe the death of Mary Fortay ms Reekie is not your lady. I just can’t believe it. The fact that in 1861 she’s living alone and can’t remember where she was born (or was that perhaps the helpful and probably unrelated neighbor who said that?...both out door workers??? Hmmm…I wonder) anyhow Isa was advanced in years. She would have needed some help surely and if the Robertsons even thought they might have been some distant relative of hers might have taken her in or watched out for her. The relationship of son in law is a loose term in my humble opinion. I think it might have been used for anything other than the usual son or head of household. The appearance in the family tree of a reference to IRELAND (have to assume they were thinking surname here and not country ) is almost the scrap of clue that can glue your tree to theirs. Can’t prove it but it’s a tempting start. The real problem being the strikes you have against you:

1. Working in pre 1855 records.
2. Working without the could be vastly helpful Ceres 1841 Census.
3. Working with informants that are making an effort but probably not doing the job justice.

Just to prove this a wee bit further I couldn’t resist looking in the David ROBERTSON line to see if Jane IRELAND popped up anywhere (other than on the DC that is) There’s only one OPR entry I’ve found that could fit and that is a birth of a David ROBERTSON to Thomas ROBERTSON and Elizabeth BAND in Newburn on 15 Oct 1809. That looks awfully tempting when considering we now know that his to be one day wife was also born in Newburn. Other children to Thomas and Elizabeth are born in Kingsbarn. Sadly David always states he was born in Carnbee though on the census records so I don’t think this is him…at least at the moment. That means that just maybe there was a Thomas ROBERTSON and Jane IRELAND in the picture. I can’t believe that the husband of one of David’s daughters would give the same name for both of her grandmothers and have them both be incorrect if the name really didn’t mean something to the family tree somewhere somehow….and if so then just maybe David ROBERTSON is some sort of distant rellie ornament to put on your tree. Where to hang him I’ve no clue.

I’m further intrigued by your theory that maybe David had a son David who took up with a daughter of Isa…and the signature by David Robertson wasn’t really David Sr. but David Jr. I suppose there is no concrete proof that we’ve got the right David Robertson. Just because he’s the only one in Largo 2 years after what we accept to be Isa dies in Largo doesn’t mean he’s the one who signed. Since all his kids were born pre 1855 and David predeceased his wife we’ve got no signature to work with. Unless your alternate theory holds up that he was the new pen possessosr and phantom signer of Lower Largo and another signature lies out there just waiting.

Altho…on second thought…..if we try and link your tree with it’s known connection to IRELAND and to Isa and then try and link David Robertson to IRELAND through Isa….wouldn’t that do something weird to make your ancestors like cousins or worse??? Maybe it’s best not to go there. Hmmmm…..methinks this one is doomed for the unsolved mystery file….not for lack of trying though.

Best wishes
Jean

[grannysrock]

Jean, many thanks for your splendid efforts.
The evidence for and against Isa = Mary:

FOR:
There are no Mery Reekies or Fortay's in the 1851 or 1861 Scottish at could be this lady. ( There is a Mary Reekie in Cupar in 1851 with a Robertson grandchild, but her married name was Davidson and she died in 1859)

There doesn't seem to have been a John Fortay .
The only Fortay-Reekie marriage in the index is Isabella and Alexander's.
There is no death record to be found for Isabella.
About the right age.
Father's name likely correct - there is an Isabella Rikie born to James in Auchtermuchty in 1782 .

AGAINST:

Wrong forename.
Wrong forename of husband.

This one has given me such a sore head. I think was happier when I thought she had died 1851-1854.

I think on balance that Mary = Isa . But ........................the Robertson's are doing my head in.

Perhaps time to put this one to bed . Anyway the Calcutta Cup must be on soon .... Time for a bit of patriotism...
Sally