deciphering marriage registration

[kathyc]

I just uploaded the marriage registry for my great great grandparents, John MacLean and Mary Ann Macrae, in hopes someone might be able to help decipher parts of it.

I can't figure out the place where they were married or the first word of how they were married before "after banns...".

Also, John MacLean's occupation is given as joiner, but there's a word underneath joiner and above bachelor that I can't figure out.

The couple appears to have lived at the same address which is 164 something street Glasgow. Any thoughts what the street is?

And finally, in the box with her parents, I can make out their names, Murdo Macrae and Jessie Macrae MS Mackenzie but can't quite figure out his occupation or the small word before her name. Other documents say Murdo was a ship owner, and the best I can come up with for what it says here is "seaman something service deceased."

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1105

Thanks!
Kathy

Gallery URL added - AndrewP

[emanday]

I just uploaded the marriage registry for my great great grandparents, John MacLean and Mary Ann Macrae, in hopes someone might be able to help decipher parts of it.

I can't figure out the place where they were married or the first word of how they were married before "after banns...".

Looks like 50 Jane Street, Glasgow. After Banns according to the forms of the Free Church of Scotland

Also, John MacLean's occupation is given as joiner, but there's a word underneath joiner and above bachelor that I can't figure out.

Joiner Journeyman

The couple appears to have lived at the same address which is 164 something street Glasgow. Any thoughts what the street is?

Looks like 164 Stobcross Street

And finally, in the box with her parents, I can make out their names, Murdo Macrae and Jessie Macrae MS Mackenzie but can't quite figure out his occupation or the small word before her name. Other documents say Murdo was a ship owner, and the best I can come up with for what it says here is "seaman something service deceased."

Seaman Merchant Service

Mother details are "and Jessie McRae m.s. McKenzie"

[nelmit]

Yes, I agree with Mary.

In case you don't have it here they are in 1881 -

Dwelling: 79 Raeberry St
Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203663 GRO Ref Volume 644-9 EnumDist 66 Page 5
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John MC LEAN M 29 M Torridon, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Joiner
Mary MC LEAN M 25 F Sheildaig, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland
Rel: Wife

Kind regards,
Annette M

[kathyc]

Mary, thank you! I've become a total addict. Each piece of the puzzle leaves me with more questions about them.

Annette, thanks so much for the census entry. I haven't yet delved into the 1881 census at all so this is fabulous!

Kathy

[emanday]

I've become a total addict.

Got some news for you! There are no "anti-addiction patches" for it either

Fact is - there is no cure once "the bug has bit"

Each piece of the puzzle leaves me with more questions about them

I know! I know! I'm trying to discover the origins of some of my rellies middle names for no better reason than nosy curiousity. This particular line seemed to "honour" previous generations by giving kids appropriate middle names, but I'm quite a few generations back, including siblings and their spouses, beyond them and still no sign of some of these names. Maddening, but a really brilliant feeling when I do find any of them

[kathyc]

Mary,

Oooh, that's a good one. You could spend hours and hours exploring the name origins.

Right now, I'd like to know why my GG grandparents were at the same address before they were married and why they had healthy, robust children who all lived good long lives just about every year from 1883 until his death, but not a single one in the first five years they were married. The details, as maddeningly elusive as they are, fascinate me.

Got some news for you! There are no "anti-addiction patches" for it either

Kathy

[AndrewP]

Right now, I'd like to know why my GG grandparents were at the same address before they were married and why they had healthy, robust children who all lived good long lives just about every year from 1883 until his death, but not a single one in the first five years they were married. The details, as maddeningly elusive as they are, fascinate me.

Hi Kathy,

The same address could mean different flats within the one tenement building rather than "living in sin". Unless you can find them on a census report living in the same household before marriage, that has to be a possibility.

I take it that you have searched for children who died young and found none. Another possibility is that there were some sillbirths or the like. Or could they have been prudent and not found themselves in a financial situation to have children before then.

These are some possibilities, but unfortunately you will probably never know if any of them are the right answer.

All the best,

AndrewP

[Russell]

Hi Kathy

Adding to what Andrew has said. They were married in the Free Church of Scotland. Nor all of their records have survived to be digitised so ther could have been earlier children.

The same address being given prior to marriage was common and I think the answer is fairly simple. He would leave his bags and baggage at her address to qualify as resident at that address so that the banns would only need to be called in the one church rather than in his and hers. cheaper that way.
I don't think it would cause many eyebrows to be raised especially when you think of Scots Law on what constituted a marriage.

Russell

[kathyc]

Russell and Andrew,

Both great ideas about the same address. I'd been leaning towards the larger tenement idea myself, but hadn't thought of establishing an address for banns.

Apart from the IGI and census records, which aren't any help in this case, is there a way to search for children of particular parents? A surname check for births in the relevant years in their known 1881 location on SP yields WAY too many pages for my budget.

Kathy

[Russell]

Hi Kathy

The only way we were able to make a start on the generation after IGI entries stop, was to gather information from Marriage certificates of siblings.
Often a known child when they were married had a brother or sister as one of their witnesses. Of course, we did not know if they were related until we had found their birth record too. It can take quite a while to fit the various bits together,.
We often found that a family witness (brother or sister) would go on to marry the other witness) It sent us down some interesting side branches too.

The use of the family naming pattern helps a lot so I hope your different lines used it.

Russell