Thomas Campbell yet again

[nelmit]

In my never ending quest to locate the place and date of death of Thomas Campbell, born 1845 in Hamilton, I’ve gone on a sideways search of the family of his 3rd wife Helen/Ellen Carruthers/Thomson/Norman.

I am positive this is her in 1881 as I have looked at the marriages of Annie (living in Larbert) to William Robertson in 1890 at Falkirk and Francis to Jessie Dobson in 1883 at Stirling and they both confirm this is the lady in question. I think her age should read 38 instead of 58. She also had a daughter Elizabeth who married Robert Buchanan in 1887 at Stirling.

Dwelling: 24 Bow Street
Census Place: Stirling, Stirling, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203546 GRO Ref Volume 490 EnumDist 9 Page 35
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Ellen NORMAN M 58 F Coatbridge, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Dom Servant
Maggie NORMAN U 20 F Coatbridge, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Carpet Factory
Francis NORMAN U 16 M Ireland
Rel: Son
Occ: Labourer
Annie NORMAN U 13 F Doune, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
John NORMAN 3 M Doune, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Son

I was quite excited to see a young John and thought that would help me to find them in 1891 but I can't find him on SP.

Not that it really matters but I can’t find the births of Margaret, Annie or Elizabeth on the IGI.

Thomas Campbell married Helen Carruthers (Thomson) in 1885 at Stirling.
Helen Thomson /Norman /Campbell married Daniel McLaren in 1899 at Stirling.

So where the were they in 1891

I found Elizabeth and Annie in 1891 but not Francis or John.

I know lots of you have tried for this one before but I am hoping the extra details may help.

Why do I always find these things at bedtime.


Goodnight,
from an ever hopeful

Annette M

PS

Anyone able to decipher the witness Minnie's surname on this marriage entry.

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1158

[SarahND]

Hi Annette,
Could this be Francis in 1891?

8 St Mary's Wynd, Stirling, Stirlingshire
Jas Francis Norman, 28, head, born Ireland, Mason Lab
Jessie Norman, 26, wife, born England
Isabella Norman, 4, daur, born Perth
Margt Norman, 2, daur, born Perth

Regards,
Sarah

[SarahND]

Hi again,
Sad to say, there is one John Norman, born 1878 +/- 2, who died between 1881 and 1891. It looks like he died in Lanark in 1883 and was born in 1878. Could he be your John?
All the best,
Sarah

[emanday]

Anyone able to decipher the witness Minnie's surname on this marriage entry.
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1158

Could it be Minnie Arthur?

[nelmit]

Hello Sarah,

Spot on with Francis but I had a look at the death of John Norman on SP and it's not the John I'm looking for.

Thanks a lot,
Annette M

[DavidWW]

Anyone able to decipher the witness Minnie's surname on this marriage entry.
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1158

Could it be Minnie Arthur?

I'd go for Struthers ............

David

[grannysrock]

Hi Annette

Not that it really matters but I can’t find the births of Margaret, Annie or Elizabeth on the IGI.

Is there any chance that Helen Carruthers/Thomson/Norman/Campbell was also Helen Neville.

the IGI has some children born to a Helen Thomson and John Neville in Kilmadock ( I think Doune comes under Kilmadock ? ) :

1. HELEN NEVIL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 19 OCT 1874 Kilmadock, Perth, Scotland

2. ANNE NEVILLE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 12 JAN 1868 Kilmadock, Perth, Scotland

3. JOHN NEVIL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 31 JUL 1872 Kilmadock, Perth, Scotland

4. MARJORY NEVILLE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 15 JUL 1870 Kilmadock, Perth, Scotland


The 1871 census from Ancestry has :

Registration Number: 362
Registration district: Kilmadock
Civil parish: Kilmadock
County: Perthshire
Address: Chapel Street
ED: 4
Page: 56
Household schedule number: 328
Roll: CSSCT1871_64

John Neville abt 1831 Ireland Head Shoemaker
Ellen Neville abt 1839 Coatbridge, Lanark Wife
Margaret Neville abt 1860 Coatbridge, Lanark Daughter
Elizabeth Neville abt 1862 Coatbridge, Lanark Daughter
Frances Neville abt 1864 Ireland Son
Annie Neville abt 1868 Kilmadock, Perth Daughter
Marjory Neville abt 1870 Kilmadock, Perth Daughter

I can't see a marriage between Helen Thomson and John Neville - perhaps that took place in Ireland ? Or not at all.

(I still dont see Margaret's Or Elisabeth's births anywhere yet )

This might all be a coincidence of course, but if this wass your Helen and family it adds yet another surname to the mix!

Sally

[nelmit]

Hello Sally,

I did a check of Kilmadock on the Hugh Wallis site and did see Nevil(le) births with Helen Thomson as the mother and discarded it.

Now that you've shown me the 1871 census I would agree that it is the same Helen. Her first husband John Norman?? was a shoemaker. How the do you get Norman from Neville??
Yet another name to add to her list.

Thank you so much - ma heid's really burstin' now

I wonder if Helen and Thomas went to Ireland and were there in 1891??
I don't think I'll ever find his death - but that won't stop me from trying.

Kind regards,
Annette M

PS David I think you may be right about the name - I was hoping it was Stevens.

[nelmit]

Had a look at young John's birth entry in 1878. Father John Nevil, shoemaker and mother Helen Thomson. According to that they were married in 1858 at Old Monkland but of course it's nowhere to be seen.

I'm beginning to think I've stretched the plastic a bit too far on the wrong family as I've just realised Helen's age on the 1871 census makes her born around 1832 and the Helen who married Thomas Campbell was born around 1845.

I'm away to crash the paracetamol.

Kind regards,
Annette M