goodmorning everyone
i have my g.g.g.grandfather andrew bennet morgan and his wife jane or ann marshall,now i no they came from leith midlothian.and i no were his son went ,but ihave just been sent some more information that was on with the morgans.can anyone tell me they are relateded to.it reads as follows this is what i got of talking scot
andrew morgan married louisa harriet field
5july 1868 aston juxa birmingham,warwick.england
now i have this one
5 july 1868 at st peters and st pauls church(aston juxta)
andrew morgan-age 20-bachelor-occuapation-draper-living at aston manor-father henry morgan-occ-leather dealer
married
loisa harriet field-21-spinster-living at birmingham
father-john william field-occ-farmer
i would like to no if they are the same people,as i thought andrewsfather was also andrew .can anyone help thank you for your time.joyce from holland,i have just been looking at some more info i got and to me it looks likejames cowan morgan was andrews father .mother mary darge melrose,s.so coulg anyone tell me were henry came from .please help as i have now come to afull stop.joyce
abit confused.....
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joyce
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abit confused.....
looking for my ancestors from as far back as i can get names
morgan.marshall.williamson.cowan
morgan.marshall.williamson.cowan
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JustJean
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Hi Joyce
I am working like mad trying to make sense of your Morgan family and I'm not a bit surprised that you have come to a full stop!!! I am not convinced that you have the correct marriage cert for Andrew Bennett Morgan but at the moment I can't prove otherwise. I also don't think you are heading in the right direction by thinking that Andrew was a son of James Cowan Morgan and Mary Darge Melrose. If anything Andrew was a brother. The presence of James & Mary's daughter Jane living in Andrew's household in England in the 1881 census and labeled neice is a pretty solid clue (if indeed the Jane is their daughter!!!! Unfortunately there was another Jane M. Morgan born in 1866 to James Morgan & Janet Wark in West Lothian just to complicate things!!!) Maybe you can help me make some progress by answering a few questions:
Do you know for a fact that the mother of Malcolm Bonner Morgan was Louisa Harriet Field? Is it possible she might have been Louisa Barbarina Field? (altho I can't prove a marriage for Andrew Bennett & Louisa Barbarina at the moment certain locations and logistics would allow this to be a slight possibility) There exists another marriage cert for an Andrew Bennett Morgan recorded in Islington Sept 1868 in Vol 1b Page 567. I do not know who the spouse was. Have you ordered this cert before?
Actually it would be helpful to know exactly what evidence you know to be a provable fact. Leave out all the connections you think you have correct and just state the known names in your family as far back as you can.
Let's see if we might make some progress on this brick wall of yours!!
Jean
I am working like mad trying to make sense of your Morgan family and I'm not a bit surprised that you have come to a full stop!!! I am not convinced that you have the correct marriage cert for Andrew Bennett Morgan but at the moment I can't prove otherwise. I also don't think you are heading in the right direction by thinking that Andrew was a son of James Cowan Morgan and Mary Darge Melrose. If anything Andrew was a brother. The presence of James & Mary's daughter Jane living in Andrew's household in England in the 1881 census and labeled neice is a pretty solid clue (if indeed the Jane is their daughter!!!! Unfortunately there was another Jane M. Morgan born in 1866 to James Morgan & Janet Wark in West Lothian just to complicate things!!!) Maybe you can help me make some progress by answering a few questions:
Do you know for a fact that the mother of Malcolm Bonner Morgan was Louisa Harriet Field? Is it possible she might have been Louisa Barbarina Field? (altho I can't prove a marriage for Andrew Bennett & Louisa Barbarina at the moment certain locations and logistics would allow this to be a slight possibility) There exists another marriage cert for an Andrew Bennett Morgan recorded in Islington Sept 1868 in Vol 1b Page 567. I do not know who the spouse was. Have you ordered this cert before?
Actually it would be helpful to know exactly what evidence you know to be a provable fact. Leave out all the connections you think you have correct and just state the known names in your family as far back as you can.
Let's see if we might make some progress on this brick wall of yours!!
Jean
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MaryE
- Posts: 105
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Hi Joyce/Jean
I've tried to make some headway with this one as well for some time now. Andrew Bennett Morgan is in London for the 1871/1881/1891/1901 censuses - images sent to Joyce some time ago. His wife Louisa gives her birthplace on all of them as Thame, Oxfordshire. Andrew is a bank messenger/bank clerk. Son Malcolm Bennett Morgan is 9 in 1881, 19 in 1891 and 29 in 1901, married by this time to Helen Tyler. No sign of Andrew anywhere in England in the 1861 census.
As Jean says, there are two marriages for an Andrew Morgan in the Sept quarter of 1868, one in Aston (Warwickshire) and the other in Islington (London). The Aston one is just Andrew Morgan but the Islington one is for Andrew Bennett Morgan. This info is from FreeBMD and as Jean says. the reference is 1868 Sept: Morgan, Andrew Bennett, Islington 1b 567. Unfortunately, clicking on the page number for all entries on that page brings up three male but only two female entries. Neither of the two female entries is a Louisa. Given the imbalance of male/female entries on the page, I wondered if one had been mistranscribed so I tried entering just the first name Louisa - no surname - for the same quarter, limiting the search to Islington. There were 15 hits and the first one, for Louisa Bonner, struck me as being likely as it was page number 576 - very similar indeed to the page number for Andrew's entry. A quick check on 1837online showed that Louisa's reference was correct but that the page number for Andrew should definitely have been 576 not 567 so a transcription error in FreeBMD. So Andrew Bennett Morgan married Louisa Bonner and the Islington marriage is definitely the correct one.
None of this helps with Andrew's birth and parentage in Scotland but does at least clear up his marriage and Malcolm's parentage.
Mary
I've tried to make some headway with this one as well for some time now. Andrew Bennett Morgan is in London for the 1871/1881/1891/1901 censuses - images sent to Joyce some time ago. His wife Louisa gives her birthplace on all of them as Thame, Oxfordshire. Andrew is a bank messenger/bank clerk. Son Malcolm Bennett Morgan is 9 in 1881, 19 in 1891 and 29 in 1901, married by this time to Helen Tyler. No sign of Andrew anywhere in England in the 1861 census.
As Jean says, there are two marriages for an Andrew Morgan in the Sept quarter of 1868, one in Aston (Warwickshire) and the other in Islington (London). The Aston one is just Andrew Morgan but the Islington one is for Andrew Bennett Morgan. This info is from FreeBMD and as Jean says. the reference is 1868 Sept: Morgan, Andrew Bennett, Islington 1b 567. Unfortunately, clicking on the page number for all entries on that page brings up three male but only two female entries. Neither of the two female entries is a Louisa. Given the imbalance of male/female entries on the page, I wondered if one had been mistranscribed so I tried entering just the first name Louisa - no surname - for the same quarter, limiting the search to Islington. There were 15 hits and the first one, for Louisa Bonner, struck me as being likely as it was page number 576 - very similar indeed to the page number for Andrew's entry. A quick check on 1837online showed that Louisa's reference was correct but that the page number for Andrew should definitely have been 576 not 567 so a transcription error in FreeBMD. So Andrew Bennett Morgan married Louisa Bonner and the Islington marriage is definitely the correct one.
None of this helps with Andrew's birth and parentage in Scotland but does at least clear up his marriage and Malcolm's parentage.
Mary
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AndrewP
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The two Andrew Bennet Morgan deaths that I found previously for Joyce are in Leith.
All the best,
Andrew Paterson
edit: correction to signed name on 1873 certificate - should be James C Morgan and not James B Morgan as I said earlier.
- Andrew Bennett Morgan, marine stoker, widower of Jane Marshall; died 20-Jul-1873, 44 Pitt Street, Bonnington, Leith; aged 68 years; parents: James Morgan, tailor (deceased) and Catherine Morgan, ms. Murray (deceased); registered by James C Morgan (son)
- Andrew Bennet Morgan, single; died 07-Jun-1865, 47 Couper Street, Leith; aged 23 hours; parents: James Cowan Morgan, confectioner (journeyman) and Mary Darge Morgan, ms. Melrose; registered by James C Morgan (father)
All the best,
Andrew Paterson
edit: correction to signed name on 1873 certificate - should be James C Morgan and not James B Morgan as I said earlier.
Last edited by AndrewP on Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
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JustJean
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Oh my...... Thank You Mary!!! The correct Louisa is found!! I was only going on the fact her middle initial was stated as B. in 1881 but had not tracked down to Louisa Bonner yet. It was on my to do list though with a son named Malcolm Bonner that had to be a good clue.
Now that that part is settled and Andrew has provided the data for the Morgan connections in Scotland I can only add that James Cowan Morgan and Mary Darge Melrose have a daughter Jane Marshall Morgan 31 Dec 1866 in Leith, Midlothian. I have assumed this Jane M., age 14, is the neice residing in London in 1881 census with uncle Andrew and family. A check of her birth in Scotland confirms her parents marriage on 5 June 1862 in North Leith. A check of this marriage cert confirms James Cowan Morgan's father was Andrew Bennett Morgan, marine stoker, and mother was Jane Marshall, deceased.
I can't explain the James B. Morgan signing the DC for his father Andrew Bennett Morgan though....why is it B.?
Jean
Now that that part is settled and Andrew has provided the data for the Morgan connections in Scotland I can only add that James Cowan Morgan and Mary Darge Melrose have a daughter Jane Marshall Morgan 31 Dec 1866 in Leith, Midlothian. I have assumed this Jane M., age 14, is the neice residing in London in 1881 census with uncle Andrew and family. A check of her birth in Scotland confirms her parents marriage on 5 June 1862 in North Leith. A check of this marriage cert confirms James Cowan Morgan's father was Andrew Bennett Morgan, marine stoker, and mother was Jane Marshall, deceased.
I can't explain the James B. Morgan signing the DC for his father Andrew Bennett Morgan though....why is it B.?
Jean
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AndrewP
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The signature is James -
JustJean
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joyce
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all confused
good morning to you all
and thank you for all the help you are giving me this are the cert i have.but before i forget she was lousia b morgan i dont have the cert of andrew bennet morgan as yet as i wanted to be sure .but this is what i have
extract29 march 1935
andrew bennet morgan married jane marshall
father the late william marshall
9 jan 1892
malcolm bonner morgan 21 bachelor clerk -7 risinghill
father andrew bennett morgan-clerk
helen tyler 23 spinster- 7 risinghill street
father william tyler dead-beadle
and thats asfar i have sent for acert for it seems helen had abby girl harriet jane before she married andrew ,will get the cert this week,other wise all the information i have is from your forum,and thank yo all very much trying to help sort this out.joyce from holland
and thank you for all the help you are giving me this are the cert i have.but before i forget she was lousia b morgan i dont have the cert of andrew bennet morgan as yet as i wanted to be sure .but this is what i have
extract29 march 1935
andrew bennet morgan married jane marshall
father the late william marshall
9 jan 1892
malcolm bonner morgan 21 bachelor clerk -7 risinghill
father andrew bennett morgan-clerk
helen tyler 23 spinster- 7 risinghill street
father william tyler dead-beadle
and thats asfar i have sent for acert for it seems helen had abby girl harriet jane before she married andrew ,will get the cert this week,other wise all the information i have is from your forum,and thank yo all very much trying to help sort this out.joyce from holland
looking for my ancestors from as far back as i can get names
morgan.marshall.williamson.cowan
morgan.marshall.williamson.cowan
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joyce
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:36 am
- Location: netherlands
abi confused
hijean
the names i can remember are as follows
andrew benntt morgan
jane marshall
andrew bennett morgan
lousia b morgan
malcol bonner morgan
helen tyler
kenneth morgan
bertie
winnifred morgan
helen morgan
jane morgan
euphemia marshall
euphemia cowan .and i think thats about it as im not very good now at remembering things ,must be the age i no this my be alot to ask you and everyone but when we get it right could you set it out for me the way it should be,thank you as im trying to sort out the family tree,and i have all sorts of problems with my mothers mum cant find her,well thank you and if i was in your side of the world would buy you all adrink,thank you.joyce from holland
the names i can remember are as follows
andrew benntt morgan
jane marshall
andrew bennett morgan
lousia b morgan
malcol bonner morgan
helen tyler
kenneth morgan
bertie
winnifred morgan
helen morgan
jane morgan
euphemia marshall
euphemia cowan .and i think thats about it as im not very good now at remembering things ,must be the age i no this my be alot to ask you and everyone but when we get it right could you set it out for me the way it should be,thank you as im trying to sort out the family tree,and i have all sorts of problems with my mothers mum cant find her,well thank you and if i was in your side of the world would buy you all adrink,thank you.joyce from holland
looking for my ancestors from as far back as i can get names
morgan.marshall.williamson.cowan
morgan.marshall.williamson.cowan
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MaryE
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:53 pm
Joyce/Jean/Andrew
One small point that would link the London Andrew with the Leith ones is that although the 1881-1901 censuses just give Andrew's place of birth as Scotland, the 1871 states Scotland, Midlothian.
Joyce, I think the next logical step is for you to order the 1868 marriage of Andrew Bennett Morgan and Louisa Bonner as this should give Andrew's father plus father's occupation. The correct reference is 1868 Sept Islington 1b 576. You can order it as you did the Aston one. Only when you have definitely confirmed his father can you finally try to make the link back to Scotland.
It's a pity that there seems to be confusion over Ann/Jane Marshall.
Mary
One small point that would link the London Andrew with the Leith ones is that although the 1881-1901 censuses just give Andrew's place of birth as Scotland, the 1871 states Scotland, Midlothian.
Joyce, I think the next logical step is for you to order the 1868 marriage of Andrew Bennett Morgan and Louisa Bonner as this should give Andrew's father plus father's occupation. The correct reference is 1868 Sept Islington 1b 576. You can order it as you did the Aston one. Only when you have definitely confirmed his father can you finally try to make the link back to Scotland.
It's a pity that there seems to be confusion over Ann/Jane Marshall.
Mary