Baptism before birth

Chris Paton · Post by **Chris Paton** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:47 am

I've been doing quite a bit of work with the Perth baptismal registers just now, and have come across a couple of examples of children being baptised before they were born, sometimes by about a month. Are these clerical errors, or was there a reason for why this may have actually happened?

Chris

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:03 am

If it's 1855 or later, - clerical error apart, it could be very simple.

After 21 days there was a penalty of minimum 20s (£1) for late registration.

From several situations such as you have come across, people were very aware of this, so just "adjusted" the date of birth when they went to make the registration, in order to avoid the fine.

Whatever the registrar might suspect, he had limited powers in the matter, and wasn't required to ask for proof.

Now, in small rural parishes, where the session cleark might double up as the registrar, folk would see the uselessness of trying to pull the wool over the registrar's eyes.

From the kirk's side, they weren't bothered as the sacrament had taken place as required, in accordance with church law

If it's before 1855, then I've got problems explaining it away.............

David

Chris Paton · Post by **Chris Paton** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:31 am

Hi David,

It's the 1770s to 1790s.

For example:

Elizabeth DOUGALL, born 24 AUG 1773, baptised 22 AUG 1773.
John WILSON, born 24 JAN 1790, baptised 23 JAN 1790
Margaret STIRTON, born 2 JUN 1793, baptised 9 MAY 1793

I could understand if the mother to be was seriously ill that the church might wish to baptise the child prior to birth, but a month in advance seems a bit extreme!

Chris

Montrose Budie · Post by **Montrose Budie** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:33 pm

Hi Chris

This just has to be an error somewhere on the part of the Session Clerk, or minster......

David

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:35 pm

Chris Paton wrote:
I could understand if the mother to be was seriously ill that the church might wish to baptise the child prior to birth, but a month in advance seems a bit extreme!

Chris

Hi guys

I'm intrigued by the statement above. Does anyone know...... Is there a precedent for Church of Scotland to ever baptise an unborn child? Is there a confirmed record of this intentionally occuring? Just curious....no other reason.....

Best wishes
Jean

Chris Paton · Post by **Chris Paton** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:37 pm

Hi Jean,

It's not a statement of fact, just a guess for the motivation if it wasn't a clerical error!

Chris

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:40 pm

Thanks Chris

I'm not sure I would have considered that but it was a great theory!!!! I was hoping it was true!!

Best wishes
Jean

Chris Paton · Post by **Chris Paton** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:32 pm

I'm a great one for coming up with theories - proving them tends to be the problem...! lol

David may well be right that it is a clerical error in each case, but it does strike me as rather odd. These entries weren't hurriedly scrawled into the registers, and being quite brief I would have thought they would have stood out by a mile if they were in error, and yet none of them has been subsequently corrected. Yet in other entries where the details are found to be incorrect, they have been subsequently amended. I'm no theologian, but I think the baby's soul was baptised rather than its body, so if there was a threat to the baby, perhaps this was a way to save the soul before it was too late?! Pure speculation however!

I might at some stage see if the mothers survived birth by looking at the A. K. Bell burial registers in Perth!

Are there any Presbyterian ministers on the forum...?!

Chris

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:45 pm

No Ministers as far as I know

But there is one Optimist - called Chris Paton

Russell

Chris Paton · Post by **Chris Paton** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:51 pm

It's always better to live with a half full glass!

Actually, I've just remembered where I can find a Presbyterian minister, though he's Canadian! I'll suss out if he has a take on it and post back soon...

Chris