Is it him? Or isn't it?

[emanday]

Now, don't get me wrong! I've got nothing against male hairdressers

However, some considerable time ago, when I found Robert Stewart on the 1891 census listed as a hairdresser, I immediately discounted him as my rellie. True, this one WAS born in the East Indies, same as mine was, but his age would have given him a birthdate of c1862. Mine was born in Mauritius in 1859 (I got his overseas BC from GRO), parents James Stewart and Anne Ireland.

As my Robert was living with his older brother John in Glasgow in 1881 and was listed as an Oiler in a Jute works that year, I couldn't see the wildly different occupation as being my chap. Today, I tried searching for Robert on the 1891 census again, this time on Ancestry and the only one that matched was the same hairdresser.

OK, so this guy was married to an Elizabeth. Looked up the MC on SP and found Robert Stewart marrying Elizabeth Delaney in 1886 in Angus, but he gives his parents as William Stewart a Baker and Jane Gardiner??? Yet again his age would make his birth in 1862, but new wife Elizabeth was only 19 at the time, so perhaps a wee white lie to pacify her parents.

I find him again in 1901, still a hairdresser, using his 1891 infant daughter to search, but now his birthplace is given as India (a wee bit misunderstanding mibbee?).

He dies in 1948 and his unmarried daughter Mary Jane is the informant. Again, not the right parents, but I'm wondering if she got that information from his MC.

Every avenue I follow keeps taking me back to this hairdresser...

Opinions warmly welcomed.

[JustJean]

Hi Mary

Let's see......you're certain that Robert with brother John and sister Margaret in 1881 is your family. You want to know what happened to Robert. You know that he was born in Mauritius. You know from the BC his parents are James Stewart and Ann Ireland.

Now for some questions! Do you know what happened to all the other siblings to Robert? Is it possible he left Scotland? Do you know where his parents died? I would be very hesitant to accept the hairdresser too.....there is just not enough proofs to make him yours yet.

Here is where I'm at......

The IGI has 2 births to James Stewart and Ann Ireland...

1. Margaret in Feb 1862 in Bridgeton
2. Ann in May 1865 in Bridgeton

Margaret's BC indicates her parents were married 13 Oct 1845 in Belfast Ireland.

The brother John that Robert and Margaret are with in 1881 was married in 1872 Calton. His parents are stated at James Stewart, carpet weaver, and Ann Ireland both living.

1851 census has at 56 Dana St, Calton
James Stewarat age 27, muslin weaver
Ann age 26
John age 4
James age 1
Catherine Stevenson, boarder age 43

Parents born Ireland and children born Glasgow.

1861 census has at 146 Old Dalmarnock Rd, Bridgeton
James Stewart age 35, muslin weaver
Ann age 33
John age 15
James age 12
Mary age 7
William age 6
Robert age 2

All children are listed as born Glasgow and parents born Ireland.

The birth address of Margaret in 1862 matches 146 Old Dalmornock Rd.

In 1871 I'm not finding the family! Even though John marries in 1872 and is living at 20 Sister St at the time they are not there in 1871. A Johnston Family who happen to be carpet weavers and born Ireland occupy that address then.

So now where did everyone get to? In 1881 we have 3 of them but where are the others?

Best wishes
Jean

[emanday]

Let's see......you're certain that Robert with brother John and sister Margaret in 1881 is your family. You want to know what happened to Robert. You know that he was born in Mauritius. You know from the BC his parents are James Stewart and Ann Ireland.

Yes to all the above. In 1882 my grandfather, George, was born to John at the same address.

Now for some questions! Do you know what happened to all the other siblings to Robert? Is it possible he left Scotland? Do you know where his parents died? I would be very hesitant to accept the hairdresser too.....there is just not enough proofs to make him yours yet.

Guess what I've just found? Robert is still with John in 1891, but listed as a boarder instead of brother. Birthplace East Indies but, just to confuse things, his age would place his birth in 1862 which isn't possible as that's when Margaret was born in Glasgow. He's a Tube Cutter! Maybe John got Robert and Margaret's ages mixed up, even though she isn't there.

Here is where I'm at......

The IGI has 2 births to James Stewart and Ann Ireland...

1. Margaret in Feb 1862 in Bridgeton
2. Ann in May 1865 in Bridgeton

Margaret's BC indicates her parents were married 13 Oct 1845 in Belfast Ireland.

I found their marriage record on AncestryIreland and managed to get Anne Ireland's baptism entry from the Carnmoney Church. Pity only her father, Solomon Ireland, is named.

The brother John that Robert and Margaret are with in 1881 was married in 1872 Calton. His parents are stated at James Stewart, carpet weaver, and Ann Ireland both living.

1851 census has at 56 Dana St, Calton
James Stewarat age 27, muslin weaver
Ann age 26
John age 4
James age 1
Catherine Stevenson, boarder age 43

Parents born Ireland and children born Glasgow.
1861 census has at 146 Old Dalmarnock Rd, Bridgeton
James Stewart age 35, muslin weaver
Ann age 33
John age 15
James age 12
Mary age 7
William age 6
Robert age 2

All children are listed as born Glasgow and parents born Ireland.

The birth address of Margaret in 1862 matches 146 Old Dalmornock Rd.

I've got my doubts about the Glasgow birthplace for young John, James, Mary and William. I certainly can't find any BC's for them. James joined the 5th of Foot sometime between 1845 and 1859 (When Robert was born during his posting in Mauritius). The 5th were an English regiment who were in Ireland around the same time as James and Anne got married, so some of the kids may have been born either in Ireland or Englandor any other place the regiment were posted. Margaret and Ann's BC's were easy to find in Glasgow

In 1871 I'm not finding the family! Even though John marries in 1872 and is living at 20 Sister St at the time they are not there in 1871. A Johnston Family who happen to be carpet weavers and born Ireland occupy that address then.

So now where did everyone get to? In 1881 we have 3 of them but where are the others?

Therein lies my other problem. I can't find any signs of James and Anne's deaths on SP. In 1871 they would have been around 50. Maybe they went back to Ireland

[DavidWW]

Two things.

There should be army records of the births, - see various threads here on TS.

Secondly, the 5th of Foot were the The Royal Northumberland Fusiliers. See http://www.regiments.org/deploy/uk/reg-inf/005-1.htm for details of their service, and note that the main place they were stationed between 1847 and 1856 was Mauritius I write "main" since it wasn't uncommon for detachments to be sent to other locations........ and, before that, 1843 to 1846 in Ireland..............

David

[emanday]

Actually David, it was with your help on that site about the 5th that I managed to get Robert's 1859 Mauritius BC.

The four older children, John c1846, James c1849, Mary c1852 and William c1855 but none of them appear to have been born in Scotland.

I've searched all the overseas Stewart births 1845 - 1862 (by which time they were in Glasgow) and only two were with the 5th, both in Mauritius. Robert was the one I already have, but the other was a John George Stewart in 1853. George is a family name, so a possibility, but the year is wrong if John told the truth about his age all his life. He was certainly consistent and it has always calculated out to be 1846/47.

I suppose I could order his BC but it seems a bit of a gamble.

[DavidWW]

.....much snipped ..............

I suppose I could order his BC but it seems a bit of a gamble.

From all that's been written on this thread, I'd give at least reasonable odds !!, but yes, it is somewhat of a gamble .................

But, as so often is the case in such situations, unless you take such a risk on a least a few occasions, you may never know ............

David

[emanday]

Oh! Hivvins! My poor Credit Card but I gotta know!

I've got both John and William's DC's. I just wish I could find out what happened to the other five children and their parents James and Anne.

If it turns out that the 1853 Mauritius John IS Robert's older brother, I wonder why I can't find the other ones who should be on Army birth records.

Watch this space

[nelmit]

Now, don't get me wrong! I've got nothing against male hairdressers

However, some considerable time ago, when I found Robert Stewart on the 1891 census listed as a hairdresser, I immediately discounted him as my rellie. True, this one WAS born in the East Indies, same as mine was, but his age would have given him a birthdate of c1862. Mine was born in Mauritius in 1859 (I got his overseas BC from GRO), parents James Stewart and Anne Ireland.

As my Robert was living with his older brother John in Glasgow in 1881 and was listed as an Oiler in a Jute works that year, I couldn't see the wildly different occupation as being my chap. Today, I tried searching for Robert on the 1891 census again, this time on Ancestry and the only one that matched was the same hairdresser.

snipped
Every avenue I follow keeps taking me back to this hairdresser...

Opinions warmly welcomed.

Hello Mary,

A hairdresser was an occupation within the carpet industry.

I was the first time I saw one of mine with the same occupation then noticed he wasn't the only one - we're talking Dundee here - a few months later he was a carpet printer.

Kind regards,
Annette M

[emanday]

A hairdresser was an occupation within the carpet industry.

Thanks Annette, but when this chap died in 1948 he was shown as a Hairdresser Shopkeeper, so probably one of the "cut & curl" variety