Brick wall - please help

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:43 pm

C wrote:I had a look again at the scan of the birth entry and I don't know if something's written in the column to indicate a RCE because it's quite a bad scan. If I remember correctly the listing on SP was wrong and I had to email them for the correct entry. This image doesn't have a GROS number on it so I don't know how to go about asking for a better scan?

The search on SP leads to 1865 GARVIE WILLIAM M DUNDEE SECOND DISTRICT DUNDEE CITY/ANGUS 282/02 0022 which will be the correct reference. If you click on the link on the SP search page, it leads you to a different #22 in Dundee 2nd District. I suspect the one it leads to is in a supplementary book, as it is in December 1865. William Garvie, born November 1864, registered January 1865 will be in the first book. Twenty-two registrations by 5th January seems fairly typical of a city district, so the book was probably full by December and a supplementary book started. However the SP index is pointing to the supplementary book in this case, rather than the first book.

If you are seeking an improved scan, then make sure you include this information to ensure that the improved scan is of the right certificate.

All the best,

AndrewP

Post by **SarahND** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:00 pm

This looks like it could be father William in 1861:

1861
Bakehouse Stable Celler and Coft At Back, Dundee, Angus
Fellie Garvie, 30, Head, born Ireland, Shoemaker
Mary Garvie, 28, Wife, born Ireland
John Garvie, 2 Mo, Son, born Dundee, Forfarshire
Mary McKenzie, 2, Boarder, born Dundee, Forfarshire
William Garvie, 27, Brother, born Ireland, Shoemaker

Don't see him in 1871. Maybe he went back to Ireland?

All the best,
Sarah

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:15 pm

Hi C,

A potential death for William Garvie, shoemaker, can be found in Linlithgow in 1880 (died Dec 1879, registered Jan 1880). The age of 46 in 1879/1880 matches well to the age 27 in the 1861 census. Unfortunately the person who registered his death did not know William's parents' names.

All the best,

AndrewP

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:35 pm

Hi C,

There is a possible sighting of William Garvie the shoemaker from Ireland in 1871 in Dundee. Unfortunately the scanned image is unclear. SP has him indexed as Jessie. Ancestry has the more imaginative Felie.

From looking at the image on SP, I'm not convinced of either of these first names, but it would take a fair bit of imagination to see William there. The only way to get a better clue is for you to seek a clearer (re-scanned) image of this one from SP.

He is there with his wife and three children. The death certificate I mentioned in the post above lists him as a widower, but the informant didn't know William's late wife's name. So the clues are all a bit sketchy.

The bonus on the census page is that you learn which county in Ireland this potential William was born in.

All the best,

AndrewP

A few minutes later.
Change of plan. I checked the birth of his youngest, and the father's name is clear - Felix (Ancestry wasn't so far out after all). So, unless anyone can connect the names Felix and William, then forget this lead.

Post by **SarahND** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:38 pm

Hi Andrew,
"Fellie" (also a shoemaker) was the brother of William in the 1861 household. He was born in "Intrim" according to Ancestry in 1871

Cheers,
Sarah

karenmcc · Post by **karenmcc** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:13 am

Hi C,

There is this birth on the IGI:

Jessie DUFF or BELL 7 Jun 1867 Dundee , Angus. Parents William DUFF and Isabella BELL.

Karen

C · Post by C » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:40 am

Thank you to everyone who's taken the time to help me, I really do appreciate it

I've been scrambling around a bit trying to get to terms with the acronyms used but what/where are the LDS discs? Is that something I should look at buying? I have a 6 month subscription to Ancestry but anything that would make searches easier would be welcomed. Ancestry definitely likes the haystack approach!

The William Garvie (Mill Worker Preparer) liviing with the Duffs in 1881 looks like the right one. On the marriage entry he's listed as a Pavior's Labourer but on the 1891 census when he's living with Catherine Carroll his occupation is Jute Mill Labourer.

I think the Jessie Duff on IGI could also be the right one because Isabella Bell still signs with an X and is still a millworker. I paid for the entry on SP and this time there definitely IS something written in the column and at the bottom of the page but I can't tell what it is. Something like 'Dies of Paternity' and something else...

I think the senior William Garvie living with Felie (lol) could also be the right one. But the address...they lived in a cellar? Does anyone know what a coft is? I tried googling but didn't come up with anything.

C · Post by C » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:44 am

I uploaded the Jessie Duff birth entry, if anyone wants to see if they can read the writing in the column and underneath feel free to

I don't really want to pester the poor SP staff too much if it isn't neccessary.
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1755
<image URL added. LesleyB>

I'm still looking into the leads for William Garvie senior. Is there a way to get birth certificates and things from Ireland online?

Post by **SarahND** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:43 am

C wrote:I think the senior William Garvie living with Felie (lol) could also be the right one. But the address...they lived in a cellar? Does anyone know what a coft is? I tried googling but didn't come up with anything.

That is the Ancestry transcription

which, since you have a subscription, I'm sure you realize is probably not correct letter-for-letter. If you download the actual image on Scotland's People, you may be able to decipher what it really was!

I still think that Felie/Felix is the best bet for finding out who William's parents were. If they were brothers, as it appears in 1861, then finding Felix's death might give you the parents' names. Felix is in Dundee in 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891. Then disappears. So does his wife. His daughter Mary is living with her aunt, Helen Kelly, in 1901. Unfortunately, I don't see a death for Felix in Scotland

Did he go back to Ireland to die? Let's hope not... The aunt might be worth tracing, if it looks like she is Felix's sister, rather than his wife Mary's sister.

All the best,
Sarah

Post by **SarahND** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:03 am

Hi again,
If you look for William Sr. in 1851, you will find him already in Dundee, a shoemaker apprentice. It looks as if he is the son of James, a handloom weaver linen and Mary, a yarn winder. However, since the relationship for all of them is just given as "lodger" to the head of household, it is not certain that they are William's parents-- but it looks likely. Perhaps if James or Mary's death could be found, William or Felix might be the informant?

Regards,
Sarah