Mysterious Gordon Grandfather

[JustJean]

Not sure I have anything of real value to add yet. A complicated one to be sure!!

I do agree that the 1841 freecen entry Nelmit found is tempting....and totally agree that Sarah has the correct household for Isabella in 1851. Her DC is found in Dec 1862 with death occuring at 31 George Street Aberdeen. She is a widow of Alexander Gordon, brewer and has a mn of FREEMAN. The OPR marriage is found with dual entries in Aberdeen and a corresponding one in Old Machar...

1 08/07/1806 GORDON ALEXANDER ISABEL CATHERINE/FREEMAN FR5078 M Aberdeen ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/A00 0160 0196
2 08/07/1806 GORDON ALEXANDER ISOBEL CATHARINE/FREEMAN FR5223 M ABERDEEN ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/A00 0170 0126
3 21/06/1806 GORDON ALEXANDER ISABELLA KATHARINE/FREEMAN M Old Machar ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/B00 0080 0343

At the time of marriage Alexander was named as a taxman and a tollkeeper.

Best wishes
Jean

[Richard1979]

Hello again

Yes the Ewen in the 1841 George Street Gordon houshold aged 1 is tantalising, given the posited link to John Gordon and Mary Ewen. Problem though is no way of knowing how he links to them without relationships on the 1841 census, if indeed he does. Given same reason I suppose possible even James aged 17 is not actually a son of Isabella either . He could just be a cousin, nephew, staying with her? Nevertheless, I can't see how he can possibly be the son of John Gordon and Mary Ewen, as he'd be only 13 in 1841, and as I say is in any case at home with his family in 1851 whilst mine is 3 years older and elsewhere in Drumblade. I may have to accept the family lore does appear to be confused somehow.

[Richard1979]

Mind you intriguing that Isabella gives Pitsligo as a birth place, in between Rosehearty and Fraserburgh, both of which James gives as birth places. Then again he also gives Fyvie, St Nicholas, Aberdeen....not sure how much faith I can place in him! He does seem to be hiding something in his past, and his sons complete ignorance of his origin also seems to confirm that impression.


Edit: Jean, thank you for the marriage and death information for Isabella, had not seen your post before I posted myself. Many thanks for your kind help.

[Richard1979]

1841

14 Kilgour St, Woodside,Old Machar, Aberdeenshire
First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
GORDON Alexr M 63 Shoemaker Aberdeenshire
GORDON Catharine F 53 Aberdeenshire
GORDON Catharine F 26 Flax Spinner England
GORDON William M 21 Flax Sorter Aberdeenshire
GORDON George M 17 Flax Sorter Aberdeenshire
GORDON James M 12 Flax Sorter Aberdeenshire
GORDON Martha F 10 Aberdeenshire


Looks like the Martha, James, George and Catherine at the other adress 37 George Street in 1851 were living in Old Machar in 1841. Interesting as the Isabaella at 31 Jean has found was married in Old Machar. Perhaps the two families at 31 and 37 were related.

[nelmit]

Rosehearty is in the parish of Pitsligo according to another census record I saw.

Hopefully somebody can confirm this.

Also at the same address in George Street1851 is another Gordon family where the mother was born at Drumblade. Now if we could tie them all together............................

Regards,
Annette

Oh I'm so slow.........

[Richard1979]

OK just thinking aloud here trying to make some sense of it all...

-------------------------------

1841
(37?) George Street, Aberdeen West

GORDON Isabella F 50 Aberdeenshire
GORDON Margret F 20 Aberdeenshire
GORDON James M 17 Cooper Apprentice Aberdeenshire
ROSS Isabella F 1 Aberdeenshire
EWEN John M 1 Aberdeenshire
MATHEWS Elizabeth F 35 Aberdeenshir

1841

14 Kilgour St, Woodside,Old Machar, Aberdeenshire

GORDON Alexr M 63 Shoemaker Aberdeenshire
GORDON Catharine F 53 Aberdeenshire
GORDON Catharine F 26 Flax Spinner England
GORDON William M 21 Flax Sorter Aberdeenshire
GORDON George M 17 Flax Sorter Aberdeenshire
GORDON James M 12 Flax Sorter Aberdeenshire
GORDON Martha F 10 Aberdeenshire

-----------------------------------

1851

37 George Street, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire

Isabella Gordon, 60, head, House Keeper, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Catherine Gordon , 34, dau, Flax Yarn Reeler, England
George Gordon, 25, son, Fly Dresser & Line Maker, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
James Gordon, 22, son, Flax Dresser, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Martha Gordon, 19, dau, Flax Yarn Reeler, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire

1851
31 George Street, Aberdeen West

Isabella Gordon, 63, Head, born Old Pitsligo, Aberdeenshire
Isabella Ross, 11, Great Grandchild, born Aberdeen Aberdeenshire, Scholar
Jane McKenzie, 22
Henderson Clark, 13
Jane McKenzie, 22, Uncle, born Inverness, Invernesshire, Power Coom Weaver
Henderson Clark, 13, Uncle, born Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scholar

--------------------------------

If the Isabella who died in 1862, at 31 George Street, was according to the info Jean found married to an Alexander, in Old Machar and Aberdeen city, and had the full name Isabella Catherine Freeman, could she actually be the Catherine Gordon, aged 53, above with husband Alexander in Old Machar 1841? Using her middle name? Then she is back to using first name Isabella in 1851 and is now at 31 George Street. HOWEVER...the children with her in 1841 in Old Machar are with the other Isabella at 37, And the Isabella Ross has also swapped housholds! Surely the two older Isaballas must be related then?

[AndrewP]

Rosehearty is in the parish of Pitsligo according to another census record I saw.

Hopefully somebody can confirm this.

Hi Annette,

Yes, Rosehearty was in the parish of Pitsligo.

All the best,

AndrewP

[Richard1979]

Thanks again for all the help yesterday, has thrown up some very interesting new possibilities and am most greatful.

Have been going through my notes from last three years last night, and it appears the tale of James origin was passed on by a relation in the states who was born there and sadly passed away three years ago. His memory was excellent and the tale of James origins had been passed to him by his mother a grandaughter of James who emigrated to U.S.A in the opening decade of 20th century.

Now whilst I don't for a moment doubt the truth and accuracy of this account, what I hadn't questioned before was how exactly did his grandaughter come to hold this information? She was only 10 years old when her grandfather James died. Can we safely assume his origins were transmitted first hand to her, especially when his own adult son had no idea of them? The thought occurs perhaps she did not know either and her account comes from previous research she had done in the parish records?

I am now thinking if that is true, and she had research done prior to 1941, as would seem likely, then I assume neither the 1841 or 1851 census would have been available to her or her researcher at that time? That could explain how James came to be identified as the son of John Gordon and Mary Ewen baptised 1828, when the 1851 census shows clearly that James is still at home with parents aged 22 in 1851, whilst our James is elsewhere in Drumblade aged 25.

Of course could be wrong, just a theory, and perhaps the lore will ultimately prove accurate and correct, but this is more or less the problem now that has stalled us for nigh on three years, there is just no real paper evidence to back it up or disprove it either way.

Interstingly though on his last census return 1891 he gave his age as 60, ( born circa 1831). This is considerably out of step with the earlier sources, and the only date that really is nearer 1828. Perhaps his grandaughter thought he was younger also only knowing him in his later years?

The other sources are unanimously more in favour of a birth around 1823-6:

1851 (census) 1825 circa
1855 (s.bapt) 1823 circa
1861 (census) 1824 circa
1871 (census) 1825 circa
1881 (census) 1826 circa
1892 (d. cert) 1823 circa

Interesting on both his death cert and his sons baptism his age matches exactly that of the 17 year old Coopers Apprentice with Isabella Gordon in Aberdeen 1841.

It has been suggested to me before to go down the route of apprentice records. Do these survive for Aberdeen and does anyone have any experience of researching them? My James was a Master Cooper so must have served an apprenticeship at some point. Perhaps that may provide the last hope of finding paper evidence of his parantage?

Thank you again for all your help on this, and hope I've not bored you all to tears yet!

[JustJean]

OK just thinking aloud here trying to make some sense of it all...

-------------------------------

1841
(37?) George Street, Aberdeen West

GORDON Isabella F 50 Aberdeenshire
GORDON Margret F 20 Aberdeenshire
GORDON James M 17 Cooper Apprentice Aberdeenshire
ROSS Isabella F 1 Aberdeenshire
EWEN John M 1 Aberdeenshire
MATHEWS Elizabeth F 35 Aberdeenshir

1841

14 Kilgour St, Woodside,Old Machar, Aberdeenshire

GORDON Alexr M 63 Shoemaker Aberdeenshire
GORDON Catharine F 53 Aberdeenshire
GORDON Catharine F 26 Flax Spinner England
GORDON William M 21 Flax Sorter Aberdeenshire
GORDON George M 17 Flax Sorter Aberdeenshire
GORDON James M 12 Flax Sorter Aberdeenshire
GORDON Martha F 10 Aberdeenshire

-----------------------------------

1851

37 George Street, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire

Isabella Gordon, 60, head, House Keeper, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Catherine Gordon , 34, dau, Flax Yarn Reeler, England
George Gordon, 25, son, Fly Dresser & Line Maker, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
James Gordon, 22, son, Flax Dresser, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Martha Gordon, 19, dau, Flax Yarn Reeler, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire

1851
31 George Street, Aberdeen West

Isabella Gordon, 63, Head, born Old Pitsligo, Aberdeenshire
Isabella Ross, 11, Great Grandchild, born Aberdeen Aberdeenshire, Scholar
Jane McKenzie, 22
Henderson Clark, 13
Jane McKenzie, 22, Uncle, born Inverness, Invernesshire, Power Coom Weaver
Henderson Clark, 13, Uncle, born Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scholar

--------------------------------

If the Isabella who died in 1862, at 31 George Street, was according to the info Jean found married to an Alexander, in Old Machar and Aberdeen city, and had the full name Isabella Catherine Freeman, could she actually be the Catherine Gordon, aged 53, above with husband Alexander in Old Machar 1841? Using her middle name? Then she is back to using first name Isabella in 1851 and is now at 31 George Street. HOWEVER...the children with her in 1841 in Old Machar are with the other Isabella at 37, And the Isabella Ross has also swapped housholds! Surely the two older Isaballas must be related then?

As further pieces to toss in the muddy water....the IGI only has two extracted births for Isabella and Alexander and those sorta fit the 1841 family in Old Machar best .....

1. WILLIAM GORDON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 30 NOV 1818 Old Machar, Aberdeen, Scotland

2. GEORGE MILNE GORDON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 10 DEC 1824 Old Machar, Aberdeen, Scotland

I'm wondering though if Alexander's occupation could realistically change from tollkeeper/taxman to shoemaker and then to brewer. Could there be more than one Alexander/Isabella couple? In the 1841 Alexander shoemaker family the fact that the eldest daughter Catharine was born in England makes me ponder as well. The OPR marriages from Old Machar and Aberdeen were quite wordy....seems that Isabella FREEMAN was wed at her father's house in Aberdeen. It was Alexander that was of the parish of Old Machar. If her whole family was in Aberdeen and Alexander had employment then why would they have struck off to England in the first years of their marriage??....hmmmmm

Now to jump over a few hurdles to another snag that I wondering over. The 1855 BC of James GORDON in Huntly shows him to be the second child. It indicates they had and lost a daughter prior to March of 1855. Since James the father was in the area prior to marriage I'm assuming that the mother of his children was also and they just settled down there. And if so then why is there no birth registration for this child in the OPR's? Their marriage is certainly there. It might be a nice clue to see what the child's name was. Have you found any info at all on her? I at first wondered if they were of a dissenting congregation but their marriage seems to be of the Scottish church.....hmmmm

Certainly if there had been research carried out by the family in the US then as you rightly assume there would have been no access to the census records until the closure period had been satisfied. Sadly I've found my own Scottish family lore to be nothing but stories told by champion storytellers so far. I sincerely hope that doesn't prove to be true in your case!!

Still thinking on this one.....
Jean

[Richard1979]

Hello Jean

Thanks for latest thoughts.

Re James Gordon, his parish was Drumblade on the banns of the 1853 wedding, on marriage he went to live with his wife Elspeth at her home 7 Back Street, Huntly, where he lived rest of his life.

1841 Census: 7 Back Street, Huntly Aberdeenshire

1. William Troup, head, 50, Gardener, Aberdeenshire
2. Elspet Troup, 40, Aberdeenshire
3. Elspet Troup, 11, Aberdeenshire

That's wife Elspet there in 1841 aged 11 with her parents. In 1851 she is working at Huntly lodge as a domestic for Lady Gordon. Her mother Elspet Troup/Grant was herself born in Huntly in the 1790's, and married there, so the family are native to Huntly. She was technically head of household until her death in 1869, so the 1861 census may have been filled in by her. Therefore it may be she who gave James Gordons place of birth as Fyvie on that Census, and I think, least reliable of the various places of birth given.

I had noticed that they had a child before James 1855, but as you say not been able to find a baptism for her in the OPR.