Norries in Huntly

karenmcc · Post by **karenmcc** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:12 pm

Hi Gordon,

There is a JEAN ROBERTSON b 1862 in HUNTLY with father called William (no mother) in Banff, on Ancestry. I don't subscribe, so can't look at it. This is the 1871 census.

Karen

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:32 pm

Hi Gordon

Just came across the same Jean Robertson that Karen found. She is with William Robertson age 33 in Boyndie, which is William's home town. He is a brick & tile maker which ties in with the William lodging with the Stewart family in Huntly in 1861.

William has a son William Robertson with Elisabeth Smith in Boyndie in 1869, they then marry in October 1871 and William dies aged 43 in February 1881. In the census a couple of months later Elisabeth is shown as a Tile Makers widow and is living with 3 children, William 12, Alexander 9 and Margaret 4.

This does then look the most likely William to be the father of Jane/Jean.

There is also a Hellen Lawrance aged 8, niece, satying with Peter & Helen Garrow at Clatt (by Huntly). Peter Garrow married Helen Norrie - so that is most likely the daughter of Charles Lawrence & Elspeth Norrie.

Regards

Susan.

Gloswegian · Post by **Gloswegian** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:23 pm

Ladies,

I must say I am excited by your findings and it will take my small brain some time to collate the info but...

Just came across the same Jean Robertson that Karen found. She is with William Robertson age 33 in Boyndie, which is William's home town. He is a brick & tile maker which ties in with the William lodging with the Stewart family in Huntly in 1861.
William has a son William Robertson with Elisabeth Smith in Boyndie in 1869, they then marry in October 1871 and William dies aged 43 in February 1881. In the census a couple of months later Elisabeth is shown as a Tile Makers widow and is living with 3 children, William 12, Alexander 9 and Margaret 4.

looks really promising!

as does the Lawrence family stuff from Carol..

I will try to get my head round it this afternoon (work permitting)
Thanks all of you
I am amazed at the co-operation and dedication of geneaologists. I wish I worked with people half as nice!

Gordon

speleobat2 · Post by **speleobat2** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:31 pm

Good work to Susan and Karen! I stopped to have a second cup of coffee and you two found Jean/Jane.

Illegitamete children can be so hard to find because people sometimes went to great lengths to hide them. I have one 3x great aunt who was tagged to be "mother" of one of her nephews illegitamete sons on the 1851 census. Luckily, they decided to be more truthful on the 1861 census or I might never have figured out that one!

Good hunting everyone!

Carol

Gloswegian · Post by **Gloswegian** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:32 pm

Susan,
what year is the

There is also a Hellen Lawrance aged 8, niece, satying with Peter & Helen Garrow at Clatt (by Huntly). Peter Garrow married Helen Norrie - so that is most likely the daughter of Charles Lawrence & Elspeth Norrie.

If it is 1871 then it certainly looks good!

The Norries (william and Helen) had 9 children. Two of them called Helen and I can't find the death of the first one.
Helen# 1 Born 20 Feb 1836
Helen# 2 Born 1844
The first in Leslie and the second in Huntly
Good eh?

Gloswegian · Post by **Gloswegian** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:54 pm

Susan,

Just came across the same Jean Robertson that Karen found. She is with William Robertson age 33 in Boyndie, which is William's home town. He is a brick & tile maker which ties in with the William lodging with the Stewart family in Huntly in 1861.

William has a son William Robertson with Elisabeth Smith in Boyndie in 1869, they then marry in October 1871 and William dies aged 43 in February 1881. In the census a couple of months later Elisabeth is shown as a Tile Makers widow and is living with 3 children, William 12, Alexander 9 and Margaret 4.

This does then look the most likely William to be the father of Jane/Jean.

Is really exciting,,,REALLY,,,my head is buzzing

. I had suspected him but your research has put him firmly in the frame now!
I'm logging into SP to print the sheet as we speak.

Gloswegian · Post by **Gloswegian** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:26 pm

I cannot thank you all enough!
I have just viewed the 1871 census return with William Robertson and Jane/Jean in Boyndie.
To my absolute amazement the village is Whitehills, Knock Lane to be precise. I have shivers at this point!
Whitehills is where two of her illegitimate childern were born (one of them my Grandfather).
On my recent visit to the North, I went to Whitehills and walked the ground quite aimlessly as I just wanted to get a feel for the place. I now have an address which is quite brilliant!
I took some pictures when I was there and no2 Knock Lane may still be there

Unbelieveable.

Thank you Thank you

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:18 pm

Hi Gordon

Something else for you to think about !!

Elspet Norrie's situation ain't sitting comfortably in my mind - marrying Charles Lawrence in April 1861 - getting pregnant by William Robertson a couple of months later - registering the birth with no named father in March 1862, then getting pregnant by her husband almost immediately afterwards and having a premature daughter within 8 months, it's just not got the right feel about it.

So I hunted for another Elspet Norrie in and around Huntly and came up with one born 1827 in Cairnie by Huntly to James Norie & Isabel Cameron (They did not marry). In 1841 census this Elspet is with her mother Isabel who married a James Murray in 1834 and three half-sisters at Lime Kiln Burn, Cairnie.

In 1851 census the family are still at the same farm and Elspet is shown as James daugter-in-law (but that should be step-daughter). There is an unnamed, unbaptised child of 11 months - and checking the IGI there is an Isabella Norrie born to Elspet Norrie in Cairnie in April 1850.

In 1861 census the family are yet again at the same place but Elspet is not with them - I think she may be at Auchterless. However her child Isabella (Cumming) is there with her grandmother, along with a couple of other granchildren. One of these Mary Haggarty is 5 years old and on checking IGI again we find a Mary Ann Norrie born in 1856 to Elspet Norrie.

I have not found this Elspet yet in 1871 - however in 1881 she is with daughter Mary Ann and a grandson William Forbes. In 1891 and 1901 she is with her grandson William both times.

The birth of Elspet's daughter Isabella was before statutory registration so we cannot check for a signature on that but checking both the birth registrations for Mary b1856 and Jane b1862 the signature of Elspet Norrie, mother is all but identical.

Yes, Elspet would have been about 11 years older than William Robertson - but that is not unusual at all really. And perhaps we could wonder why Jane was with her father not her mother - but if Elspet already had 2 young daughters being looked after by her mum maybe a third was just too much. Elspet's half sister Isabella also had a baby daughter living with the family. However I did not see Elspet's mother on the 1881 census so checked to see when she might have died - and found out that she died in 1862 - 3 weeks after the birth of Jane Norrie - so perhaps that is why Jane ended up with her father.

This Elspet Norrie would still have been alive when Jane (Norrie) Robertson married - but it's not unusual for parents to be shown as deceased when they may still have been alive, especially if there had been little contact with them.

Anyhow, plenty to think about for now !!

Susan.

Gloswegian · Post by **Gloswegian** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:20 pm

Susan,
Blimey, I need some time to take all that in and draw it out. So much information in such a small time has really made my brain hurt.

So in 1899 when Jane eventually married. Elspet would have been 72 and still alive? And she remained a Norrie for life?

Brain,,,fuzzy,,,,need caffine!

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:01 pm

Gloswegian wrote:Susan,
Blimey, I need some time to take all that in and draw it out. So much information in such a small time has really made my brain hurt.

So in 1899 when Jane eventually married. Elspet would have been 72?

Your brain's hurtin' - I've run out of paracetamol!!!!!

I see you've had a lot of input while I was at work but I've got to say I'm with Susan on this one. Like I said before I find the known facts about Elspet Norrie/Lawrence make it improbable for her to be Jane's mum but I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

I think you'll need to to start again with what you know for a fact about your ancestor.

I take it he/she is a child of a Jane Robertson or Norrie. I am also finding it difficult to find the Stevenson family at Huntly in 1901 at that address -can only think it's mis transcribed at Ancestry.

So................what are the details of the ancestor you know is 100% yours?

Regards,
Annette