Is it just me

[ninatoo]

I am currently trying to get someone to take my gg grandmother off her tree because she has clearly made a leap of faith...if she had obtained the lady's death registration she would KNOW this! (Scenario - forget documentation or any of that annoying stuff - she knows her lady was born in Ireland about that time...so it MUST be her!!)

I have the marriage and death registrations to prove who my gg grandmother was, her census records, the birth registrations of her children and so on. When I first informed this lady about her error, she told me she would check with her Mum...well obviously Mum thinks she is right because goodness me, what could a stranger on the internet possibly know?

Nina

[Alan SHARP]

Greetings.

mb; your "Stockdill" clip brings back memories of being the first wanting to see some Renfrew & Lanarkshire OPR's films, and having to wait until the NZ FHS at the LDS Temple, imported them for me, back in the early 1980's.

Nina; All to common I'm afraid. Nothing beats doing your own research, with assistance from those more experienced in a particular field than yourself. I'm amazed how often little errors of assumption find their way into the press then continue to be referred to by subsequent editorial copy as fact, when just a little research can punch holes in "it' the so called fact. Either on a time line basis, or by doing identity checks.

In the days of card indexes at leading public libraries, I had quite a job convincing the FH Studies librarian that if they were not prepared to change the index card for an old newspaper article, at least they should put a rider note/reference to another record, which would prove the author had got the incorrect Christian name. Both men had the same surname, came from Paisley, and arrived on the same day, but on different ships from Glasgow. One was a farmer's son, the other with an interest in boats, became a partner in an early leading boat building partnership, until his accidental death, when a boat he was working on, moved in it's cradle.

Alan SHARP.

[Genetrix]

Johnniegarve and Montrose Buddy: Sorry, my mistake, it was Douglas, 6th Earl of INVERAWE Campbell (1605-1665) not LOCHAWE.

[Montrose Budie]

Hi Genetrix

There were indeed CAMPBELLS of Inverawe, but, according to Sir James Balfour PAUL's 'The Scots Peerage' there was never an Earl of Inverawe.

mb

[Montrose Budie]

More on the CAMPBELLs of Inverawe, -

Dougall Campbell, 4th of Inverawe was the son of Archibald Campbell, 3rd of Inverawe

Archibald Campbell, 3rd of Inverawe
d. after 18 January 1569/70

Archibald Campbell, 2nd of Inverawe is the son of Dougall Campbell, 1st of Inverawe.
On 2 May 1529 he resigned his property for regrant in favour of his son.



Archibald Campbell, 5th of Inverawe
d. before 29 October 1650


Archibald Campbell, 5th of Inverawe was the son of Dougall Campbell, 4th of Inverawe and Christiane Carswell. He died before 29 October 1650.
He was also known as MacConachie Campbell. He fought in the Battle of Inverlochy on 2 February 1645, where he was taken prisoner.

Children of Archibald Campbell, 5th of Inverawe

Douglas Campbell, 6th of Inverawe+1 d. b 22 Nov 1665
John Campbell
Patrick Campbell d. bt 1649 - 1654
Allan Campbell
Archibald Campbell d. b 11 Aug 1716
Eina Campbell
Marion Campbell
Catherine Campbell

mb

[Genetrix]

Hi Montrose Budie: So what do the numbers actually signify? 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. what of Inverawe?

[Montrose Budie]

Hi Montrose Budie: So what do the numbers actually signify? 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. what of Inverawe?

Just that they were the first, second, etc., of that surname, and lived/owned property in Inverawe.

But note that the 'title' "of Inverawe" could pass to a brother or a cousin.

mb

Later edit 31May2012: "of Inverawe" added to the second sentence to clarify fully what I meant by 'title' in this case. I should maybe instead have used 'designation'.
mb

[Genetrix]

Then I don't understand why they're included in Burke's Peerage.

[Montrose Budie]

Then I don't understand why they're included in Burke's Peerage.

Who mentioned Burke's Peerage?

As stated, the info was extracted from Sir James Balfour PAUL's 'The Scots Peerage', which, like Burke's Peerage, is not just a listing of the aristocracy, but their relatives, up and down the generations, who may later have become members of the aristocracy, never did so, or were descended from the aristocracy, via a cadet line but never inherited a title.

Any of those three possibilities may be the case here.

Sir James Balfour PAUL's 'The Scots Peerage' is available on-line, so go Google if you want to explore the situation further


See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burke%27s_Peerage which clearly states that the book includes 'landed gentry'.


Sir James Balfour PAUL's 'The Scots Peerage' covers the same slice of society for Scotland.


It's too late at night to dig up the few paras I have somewhere regarding the very specific differences that there were in Scotland between the designations John SMITH of Montrose, John SMITH at Montrose, and John SMITH in Montrose; except to remark that John SMITH of Montrose would be part of the landed gentry, to use the English term, possibly with aristocratic connections.

I may or may not have the other two in correct order, with John SMITH at Montrose being, for example, the tenant farmer of a large farm at Montrose; with John SMITH in Montrose just resident in Montrose. [But note that I may have got the last two designations the wrong way round.]


Douglas Campbell, 6th of Inverawe d. 1665, appears to be 'your man', but he never held the title "Earl of Inverawe"; so that, with the info above you can go back at least a generation or three via the various CAMPBELL's of Lochawe.

It's too late at night for me to work out how many generations are involved between the 1st and the 6th CAMPBELLs of Lochawe as listed above.


I'd suggest that you contact the Lord Lyon King of Arms in Edinburgh if you want to check that further. See http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/CCC_FirstPage.jsp et. seq.

mb

[Genetrix]

Hi Mb: Oh my, I do seem to be ruffling your feathers! If so, I apologise. I only mentioned Burke's Peerage because I had previously googled the Campbells of Inverawe and the Burke's Peerage site came up. I assumed the people listed were Peers of the Realm not just landed gentry. Obviously, my mistake. Frankly, I've lost interest in this crowd since they're not, I repeat not, my ancestors. My original message only brought this up because I'd found a couple of trees on Ancestry that included one of my ancestors (Ann Campbell) where my tree had hit a brick wall but they had gone back for many more generations which included all those Campbells of Inverawe. I did mention I had not accepted these people as family. In fact, being a McDonald I'd rather not have any Campbells on my tree, however I've come across a few on other lines. I do hope this puts the subject of Inverawe to bed now.