Help needed

GeorgiaL · Post by **GeorgiaL** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:57 pm

I've done really well on my own tree, and am doing a wee bit of research for an English in-law, who has found out that her g-g-grandfather was born and married in Scotland. So I said I'd take a look for her. Brick walls all round! So I wondered if anyone on here had any ideas. We are looking for:

James Waters, born 1842 in Scotland (no birthplace known).

James married Margaret, born 1847 in Ireland. No marriage date known.

Their son George was born in Scotland in 1867 (no birthplace known). George married Harriet Anderson.

I can't find any records of these people. I've used Scotland's People, but that's all.

They ended up in England as my in-law found them in the 1881 census down there.

Any ideas?

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:12 pm

Hi Georgia
and welcome to Talking Scot

They ended up in England as my in-law found them in the 1881 census down there.

Can you give us a bit more info about what was found in the 1881 - location, ages, occupation(s) etc?

Best wishes
Lesley

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:14 pm

The IGI at Familysearch.org has:

GEORGE WATTERS Male
Birth: 14 MAR 1867 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

Father: JAMES WATTERS
Mother: MARGARET MCGIVERON

Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record

That same couple also seem to have had:
JOSEPH WATTERS Male
Birth: 20 APR 1869 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

I would check for these 2 births on Scotlands People to get the marriage place and date [it should be on the BC], it maybe in Ireland .

Then try the 1871 census for Greenock, There seems to be 1 match for a George Watters [double T] aged between 3 & 5 with a James, Margaret & Joseph - but I didn't check further.

Oh and Welcome To TS

GeorgiaL · Post by **GeorgiaL** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:23 pm

Wow, fast work. I'll follow those up.
I should say I'm not totally new to TalkingScot, but I had to re-register as I'd forgotten my user name and password. I used to be G.Love.
So I just knew you could do it!
Georgia

GeorgiaL · Post by **GeorgiaL** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:25 pm

They ended up in England as my in-law found them in the 1881 census down there.
Can you give us a bit more info about what was found in the 1881 - location, ages, occupation(s) etc?

Best wishes
Lesley

Lesley, it's the English 1881 census, which shows James and Margaret Waters living at 2 Devonshire Place, Everton, Liverpool. their son is 14 in this census.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:30 pm

Hi Georgia
Ah, two further sons with the family, both born in Scotland: Joseph 12 (already located by Wilma) and James 9. Their births should be able to be found on SP. I'd go for James's as being after 1860, it should give the marraige (those births between 1856-1860 will not mention the marriage I think)

Best wishes
Lesley

WilmaM · Post by **WilmaM** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:11 pm

IGI has this for James:

JAMES WATTERS Male
Birth: 29 JAN 1872 Middle-East-West Parishes, Greenock, Renfrew,
Father: JAMES WATTERS
Mother: AGNES MCGIVRON

Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record

Watch the spelling with this crew if the search engine is fussy about double T's and mother's surname twists.

Is this the 1881 census?
Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James WATERS Head M Male 39 Scotland Cow Keeper & Coal Dealer
Margaret WATERS Wife M Female 33 Ireland
George WATERS Son U Male 14 Scotland Cow Keepers Assistant
Joseph WATERS Son Male 12 Scotland Scholar
James WATERS Son Male 9 Scotland Scholar
Robert WATERS Son Male 4 Lpool, Lancashire, England
Margaret WATERS Daur Female 2 London, London, Middlesex, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 2 Devonshire Place
Census Place Everton, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341879
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3668 / 112
Page Number 24

I can't see anyone obvious for father James' Birth, hopefully the 1871 census will give a more definate birthplace for him.

gzmcwherter · Post by **gzmcwherter** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:33 am

Hello,
I checked the 1871 Scotland Census & found them (indexed as Walters) with James' birthplace listed as Leith.
Also checked for Margaret's side of the family & found the following:

1851 England Census
Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Joseph McGiveran 28
Eleanor McGiveran 26
Margaret McGiveran 4
Mary Ellen McGiveran 2
Anne Maria McGiveran 3 Mo

Joseph McGiveran dies in 1859.
Name: Joseph McGiveran
Year of Registration: 1859
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Liverpool (1837-1934)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 90

Eleanor/Ellen marries Martin Waldron in 1860. (Listed in same page & below).
Name: Ellen McGiveran
Year of Registration: 1860
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Liverpool (1837-1934)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 436

1861 England Census
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Martin Waldron 30
Ellen Waldron 36
Michael Mc Giveran 17
Margt Mc Giveran 15
Ellen Mc Giveran 12
Jane Mc Giveran 10
Martin Waldron 60

And Margaret marries James Waters in 1865. (Listed in the same page).
Name: Margaret McGivehan [sic]
Year of Registration: 1865
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Liverpool (1837-1934)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 541

Hope this helps your friend.
Regards,
Gina

GeorgiaL · Post by **GeorgiaL** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:49 pm

THanks everyone for all that great help. From George's birth certificate I found out that the parents were married in Liverpool, w hich is why I couldn't find them in Scotland.
All very much appreciated.
Regards
Georgia

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