Scotland & France

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:53 pm

Hi,

I get newsletters from GeneaNet and I find a number of surnames from my family are also in France & Belgium. Does Scotland have a kinship with France?

dennis

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:16 pm

hi Dennis
Aye, a gie auld ane!!

the Auld Alliance, which gave Scotland a connection with France for hundreds of years. First alliance seems to have been in 1295/6. The connection most school children probably knows most about is that of Mary Queen of Scots who grew up in France, married Francis, Dauphin of France, her mother being French.

see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance
and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/scottishhi ... ance.shtml

Best wishes
Lesley

Ann In the UK · Post by **Ann In the UK** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:46 pm

Hi Denis,

I was surprised at this too. I only learned about it when researching my McMillan ancestors up in the Highlands, which led me to relearning about the battle of Culloden and the Jacobite rebellion! (If only I'd known it had some relevance to me, I may have paid more attention to history at school!)

Couple of other useful links:

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/Sc ... liance.htm

http://www.tudorhistory.org/people/maryQOS/

http://www.rampantscotland.com/history.htm

Regards,
Ann

Post by **joette** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:09 am

That's one of the reasons Scots find it hard to understand many English peoples disdain for the French although they seem pretty keen on holidaying there & enjoying their cheeses & wines etc.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:35 am

hi Dennis
The other reason you might find surnames from France in Scotland was after the Reformation, and following the persecution of Protestants in France, (a Catholic country) many of those Protestants, known as Huguenots, fled to England and Scotland (and Belgium), all now Protestant countries, to escape; better to move than be burnt at the stake or slaughtered...

There were large numbers of Huguenots in London (Spittalfields being an area where many settled) and many also sailed to in Leith, where they were very active and played a important part in the development of textile industries and the printing industry too.

Best wishes
Lesley

Thrall · Post by **Thrall** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:43 am

In my youth (so very long ago) I remember that every other car in Scotland with GB plates had, also, "Ecosse" which I assume ensured a warmer welcome on crossing La Manche.
Judging by the numbers who paid to buy the extra plate, one expects that there was something in the Auld Alliance which still worked.

Guid hunting,

Thrall

bleckie · Post by **bleckie** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:52 am

I remember going into a cafe in France to hear an argument between a female with a broad Home Counties English accent and the person behind the bar the female and her party left not being able to make him understand what it was they wanted, I then tried but being a typicle scot and not having a pechant for languages the only word I new was Escosse the person behind the bar replied thats alright mate what would you like, he spoke better english than I did.The auld alliance is alive and kicking.

Yours Aye
BruceL

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:09 am

hi Thrall

I remember that every other car in Scotland with GB plates had, also, "Ecosse"

I'd forgotten that - and of course, I remember those stickers too! I don't think I ever questioned why that should be as a child, it was just the way things were, but I've not seen one of those stickers (the old style ones)for a long time.

There are also a good number of words of French origin in everyday use in Scotland - the words have changed to a Scots pronunciation, but their origin is clear. e.g. ashet= a serving plate, gigot = leg of lamb, and er..., "gardyloo" as cried oot the windaes in the closes of auld Embra prior to chucking the contents of the chamber pot out onto the street. Not that that phase is used everyday in the 21st century!

I think this is where the use of the word "loo" for toilet probably comes from, but that is a guess, not from any academic paper on the subject!

Best wishes
Lesley

Thrall · Post by **Thrall** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:09 pm

Hi Lesley, now you have opened the traditional worm can regarding the etymology of "loo", perhaps this article will further muddy the waters:

http://blog.oup.com/2007/04/loo/

A little Googling showed that our favourite Embra version is well known, but not universally accepted....

Guid hunting,

Thrall

Andrew C. · Post by **Andrew C.** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:28 pm

Are we talking about a Scottish surname prominant in France or a name of French origin which has been common in Scotland. You could go back to the influx of Normans in the 11th and 12th Centuries when the Bruces and Frasers and a whole host of Scots names originate or as has been suggested it could have came across with the Hugoneuts, a large number of french went ot Ulster particularly Lisburn so if your family has a Northern Irish connection the may have came from France via Ulster.

For a long time the language of Scottish Royal Court was French.