Norries in Huntly

Gloswegian · Post by **Gloswegian** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:54 pm

This is my first post so be gentle with me...

I have been trying to find out what happened to my GG Grandmother for 13 years with no luck.
She was born illegitametely Jane Norrie in Huntly 1862 to Elspeth Norrie (Who was actually Lawrence by marrage). Four years later in 1866 her mother dies and there is no trace of her again until she seems to re-surface as a 17 year old domestic servant under the name Jane Robertson. A year later she has an Illegitimate son William Robertson and in subsequent years a few more illegitimate children by different unnamed fathers. She eventually marries John Stevenson.

The dilemma is that on her marrage certificate, she names her father as William Robertson but no trace can be found of her being with this family after she is orphanned or in fact any other family.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Ive re-read my post and it is a bit disjointed so I'll have another go..

Elspeth Norrie marries Charles Lawrence in 1861 in Huntly.
In March 1862 she gives birth to Jane Norrie. No father is declared.
Elspeth and Charles have a further two children untill in 1866, Elspeth dies of a lung related illness.
It seems that her Stepfather Charles, had nothing to do with her so she efectively became an orphan at 4.
The 1871 Census shows no record (that I can find) of a Jane Norrie/Lawrence/Robertson with anyone of the same name. I cannot trace any evidence of her from the age of 4 until age 17. (I would have expected to find something on the 1871 census!)

I'm trying to find why she "became" Jane Robertson and named her children the same?

She did not seem to move far as she was born in Huntly (Deveron St) and re-appeared close by in Whitehills to have a few children.

Janes mother Elspeth lived in George St Huntly (with her parents) until her marrage at 19.

It's all very strange and frustrating.

Any pointers appreciated.

Gordon

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:54 pm

Hi Gordon
..and welcome to Talking Scot

The 1871 Census shows no record (that I can find) of a Jane Norrie/Lawrence/Robertson with anyone of the same name. I cannot trace any evidence of her from the age of 4 until age 17. (I would have expected to find something on the 1871 census!)

Just a thought, but have you tried under the possible first name variations of Jean or maybe even Jessie at a pinch?

there is no trace of her again until she seems to re-surface as a 17 year old domestic servant under the name Jane Robertson

How do you know that Jane Robertson aged 17 is the the same child born as Jane Norrie?

The dilemma is that on her marrage certificate, she names her father as William Robertson

And her mother is given as Elspeth Norrie?

Could there maybe be poor law information such as an application for relief following Elspeth's death if Charles was having difficulites looking after the children? Could Jane have ended up in a poorhouse?

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:04 pm

On SP, playing around with the search, in 1871 there is a Jane Norrie aged 8 in St Nicholas, Aberdeen - have you seen this one and it is not her?
I know it is not near Huntly, but stranger things have happened!!

Gloswegian · Post by **Gloswegian** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:45 pm

Lesley,
Thanks for the interest!

How do you know that Jane Robertson aged 17 is the the same child born as Jane Norrie?

I have first hand family knowledge of the names and birth locations of her children. On her death cert she is named as MS Robertson/Norrie.
I have lots of cross referencing material from each end of her life but the bit in the middle just seems to be a mystery.

The dilemma is that on her marrage certificate, she names her father as William Robertson

And her mother is given as Elspeth Norrie?

Yes she is, so I'm pretty sure it is the right person, I just don't get the Robertson link yet or where she was for 13 years.

Could there maybe be poor law information such as an application for relief following Elspeth's death if Charles was having difficulites looking after the children? Could Jane have ended up in a poorhouse?

How would I go about finding that out? Would I have to go to Edinburgh to look through the applications or is there an on-line source?

Many thanks
Gordon

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:27 pm

What exactly does it say on Jane's birth entry.
If Elspet was married to Charles Lawrence at the time of Jane's birth then it would be mentioned on her birth entry.According to a submission at the IGI Elspet married Charles Lawrence in April 1861. Have you confirmed this?

If this is correct then I'd be very surprised if this is Jane's mother. This couple had 2 children as you say but their daughter Helen was born in November 1862. Jane was born March 1862 and, although it's not impossible, I think it is improbable. As you say Elspet Norrie/Lawrence died in 1866 - where was she living when she died? There is no sign of Charles and his 2 children at Aberdeen in 1871 onwards. Have you found them on a census?

Where was Jane living when she married and when was that?

Questions, questions

Gloswegian · Post by **Gloswegian** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:47 pm

Nelmit,

Thanks for posting!

Janes birth entry is 6 March 1862 Mother Elspeth Norrie in Deveron St Huntly.
I have her living with her parents William and Helen in George st Huntly in the April 1861 Census and her marrage is to Charles later the same month.(on the 24th)
I travelled to Huntly last week and sat with the registrar for a few hours and we cross checked this as it was so strange but she confirmed it was one and the same girl who gave birth illegitimately within the marrage and then again nearly nine months later.

She also died in George St Huntly as recorded on the death cert.

I too cannot find Charles or the other children hence the mystery!!

Cheers

Gordon

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:15 pm

Hi Gordon

How would I go about finding that out? Would I have to go to Edinburgh to look through the applications or is there an on-line source?

I would expect such records, if they exist, to be held in archives in the Aberdeen area. Many poor law applications have not survived in some areas but there do seem to be some for Aberdeenshire, inc. Huntly:
See
http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/LocalHis ... ecords.asp

Dating from 1845 to 1930 the records of the parochial boards and parish councils cover Aberdeenshire, Banffshire, Kincardineshire and Morayshire and this list shows which individual parishes are covered. The records include applications for relief, inspectors' records, minute books and registers of guardians. Indexes to many of the records are available in our Old Aberdeen House office and at the Aberdeen and North East Scotland Family History Society shop. The records are held at our Old Aberdeen House office. Please note that access to some records under 100 years old may be restricted under the Data Protection Act. Please contact us for further information.

and
http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/nmsrunti ... 4&sID=9084

Migth be worth a shot, just incase he was struggling - were the family well off? What did Charles do for a living?

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:25 pm

Y'know, I may be off on tangent here and I've no credits to check, but you remember the Jane Norrie aged 8 in St Nicholas in 1871 mentioned above??

Well oddly enough, there also seems to be a Helen Lawrence aged 9 with a Charles on the same page, and a Charles Lawrence aged 5 with a Helen on the same page also in St Nicholas .... it may be a complete coincidence, they may be another family altogether - no way to know if the 9yr old is with the 5yr old without coughing up, and there seem to be 2 Helens of about the right age in St Nicholas and 2 Charleses ditto in any case. I'd no idea there were so many Lawrences about either - 253 of them in 1871 in Aberdeenshire!

Also I'm going to be really boring and repeat myself:
..in 1871 there is a Jane Norrie aged 8 in St Nicholas, Aberdeen - have you seen this one and it is not her?
If it is not her, I'll shut up about St Nicholas!

Best wishes
Lesley

nelmit · Post by **nelmit** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:59 pm

LesleyB wrote:Y'know, I may be off on tangent here and I've no credits to check, but you remember the Jane Norrie aged 8 in St Nicholas in 1871 mentioned above??

Well oddly enough, there also seems to be a Helen Lawrence aged 9 with a Charles on the same page, and a Charles Lawrence aged 5 with a Helen on the same page also in St Nicholas .... it may be a complete coincidence, they may be another family altogether - no way to know if the 9yr old is with the 5yr old without coughing up, and there seem to be 2 Helens of about the right age in St Nicholas and 2 Charleses ditto in any case. I'd no idea there were so many Lawrences about either - 253 of them in 1871 in Aberdeenshire!

Also I'm going to be really boring and repeat myself:
..in 1871 there is a Jane Norrie aged 8 in St Nicholas, Aberdeen - have you seen this one and it is not her?
If it is not her, I'll shut up about St Nicholas!

Best wishes
Lesley

It's not her Lesley (canny find the wee emoticon wi' the plaster over it's mouth):lol:

JANE NORRIE OR LAW born Skene

Parents:
Father: GEORGE NORRIE
Mother: MARGARET LAW

1871 St Nicholas-

Margaret Norrie 31
Helen Norrie 9
Jane Norrie 8 born Skene
George Norrie 5
Alexander Norrie 3 Mo

Best wishes,
Annette

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:02 pm

Ok, thanks Annette for puttin' me oot ma misery. As promised, I'll shuddup aboot St Nicholas....