I have a Certificate of Death issued on board, for my Uncle who died at sea on the Greek Liner S.S. "Australis" in 1977.
He was a British citizen but resident of New Zealand at the time of Death.
Would either of these countries be advised of his death for registration purposes ?
Death at sea
Moderators: Global Moderators, Pandabean
-
emanday
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 2927
- Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 12:50 am
- Location: Born in Glasgow: now in Bristol
Re: Death at sea
Hi Maureen,
I don't know about 1977, but in 1899 my Great grandfather was lost overboard in the Bay of Biscay. His death was first reported to the British Consulate in Italy when the ship reached its destination port there. I found his death registered in the Marine Death entries on SP.
Whether the authorities did this or his wife (whom he'd abandoned) did it once she was informed, I cannot say.
I don't know about 1977, but in 1899 my Great grandfather was lost overboard in the Bay of Biscay. His death was first reported to the British Consulate in Italy when the ship reached its destination port there. I found his death registered in the Marine Death entries on SP.
Whether the authorities did this or his wife (whom he'd abandoned) did it once she was informed, I cannot say.
[b]Mary[/b]
A cat leaves pawprints on your heart
McDonald or MacDonald (some couldn't make up their mind!), Bonner, Crichton, McKillop, Campbell, Cameron, Gitrig (+other spellings), Clark, Sloan, Stewart, McCutcheon, Ireland (the surname)
A cat leaves pawprints on your heart
McDonald or MacDonald (some couldn't make up their mind!), Bonner, Crichton, McKillop, Campbell, Cameron, Gitrig (+other spellings), Clark, Sloan, Stewart, McCutcheon, Ireland (the surname)
-
Currie
- Posts: 3924
- Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Death at sea
Hello Maureen,
Even a foreign ship carrying passengers to or from the UK was required to report deaths on board to the British authorities. When you say that the certificate was issued on board is it something that has been in the family or something you obtained from the Minor Records or whatever. If it isn’t then I wouldn’t expect anything extra from Minor Records.
If the certificate you have is what was reported to the British authorities by the Captain then that’s the full discharge of the Captain’s responsibility to the British Government.
As far as the chance of a member of the family registering the death with the British authorities in N.Z. it isn’t possible to do such a thing. Not in the Ascension Islands, Australia, Bermuda, Canada, Cayman Islands, Christmas Islands, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Irish Republic, Nevis, New Zealand, St. Helena, South Africa, Turks & Cacos Islands, or the Virgin Islands (UK) http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentc ... G_10029476
Even if a consular registration was possible, and there was one, the info would be minimal, similar to an English certificate, and with no more detail than what you have.
Your only likely chance of getting anything additional to what you have would be if the N.Z. authorities required a death registration. The death occurred less than 50 years ago so presumably may not be online until 80 years after the birth of the deceased person?
See Sections 35 and 36 of the New Zealand legislation http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/publ ... resel&sr=1
Section 35 - Deaths outside New Zealand.
Except as provided in sections 36, 48(3), and 50 of this Act, no death outside New Zealand shall be registered under this Act.
Section 36 - Deaths on New Zealand aircraft or ships.
Any person may notify the Registrar-General and the Registrar-General may cause to be registered, as if it had occurred in New Zealand, any death that occurred outside New Zealand on an aircraft registered in New Zealand under the Civil Aviation Regulations 1953 or a New Zealand ship (within the meaning of the Maritime Transport Act 1994) or an aircraft or ship of the armed forces (within the meaning of the Armed Forces Discipline Act 1971).
Section 48(3) - If the Registrar-General is satisfied that—
(a) Any death in New Zealand has not previously been registered; or
(b) The death of a person ordinarily resident in New Zealand occurred in a place outside New Zealand where—
(i) There was no system for recording information relating to deaths; or
(ii) The system for recording information relating to deaths did not apply to the person,—
the death may be notified at any time; but (without limiting the generality of section 82 of this Act) the Registrar-General may decline to allow information relating to it to be recorded if not satisfied that its registration is appropriate.
Section 50 relates to Service Personnel. Section 36 sounds very optional. Does the Australis rate as a N.Z. ship within the meaning of the Maritime Transport Act 1994? It probably doesn’t. Does the system that required reporting to the British authorities, and which perhaps produced the certificate you have, rate as a “system for recording information relating to deaths” as in Section 48(3)(b)(i)? It probably does.
You probably should contact N.Z. BDM and see if the death was registered but newspaper archives may be the most promising.
All the best,
Alan
P.S. I thought it rang a bell.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13359
Even a foreign ship carrying passengers to or from the UK was required to report deaths on board to the British authorities. When you say that the certificate was issued on board is it something that has been in the family or something you obtained from the Minor Records or whatever. If it isn’t then I wouldn’t expect anything extra from Minor Records.
If the certificate you have is what was reported to the British authorities by the Captain then that’s the full discharge of the Captain’s responsibility to the British Government.
As far as the chance of a member of the family registering the death with the British authorities in N.Z. it isn’t possible to do such a thing. Not in the Ascension Islands, Australia, Bermuda, Canada, Cayman Islands, Christmas Islands, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Irish Republic, Nevis, New Zealand, St. Helena, South Africa, Turks & Cacos Islands, or the Virgin Islands (UK) http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentc ... G_10029476
Even if a consular registration was possible, and there was one, the info would be minimal, similar to an English certificate, and with no more detail than what you have.
Your only likely chance of getting anything additional to what you have would be if the N.Z. authorities required a death registration. The death occurred less than 50 years ago so presumably may not be online until 80 years after the birth of the deceased person?
See Sections 35 and 36 of the New Zealand legislation http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/publ ... resel&sr=1
Section 35 - Deaths outside New Zealand.
Except as provided in sections 36, 48(3), and 50 of this Act, no death outside New Zealand shall be registered under this Act.
Section 36 - Deaths on New Zealand aircraft or ships.
Any person may notify the Registrar-General and the Registrar-General may cause to be registered, as if it had occurred in New Zealand, any death that occurred outside New Zealand on an aircraft registered in New Zealand under the Civil Aviation Regulations 1953 or a New Zealand ship (within the meaning of the Maritime Transport Act 1994) or an aircraft or ship of the armed forces (within the meaning of the Armed Forces Discipline Act 1971).
Section 48(3) - If the Registrar-General is satisfied that—
(a) Any death in New Zealand has not previously been registered; or
(b) The death of a person ordinarily resident in New Zealand occurred in a place outside New Zealand where—
(i) There was no system for recording information relating to deaths; or
(ii) The system for recording information relating to deaths did not apply to the person,—
the death may be notified at any time; but (without limiting the generality of section 82 of this Act) the Registrar-General may decline to allow information relating to it to be recorded if not satisfied that its registration is appropriate.
Section 50 relates to Service Personnel. Section 36 sounds very optional. Does the Australis rate as a N.Z. ship within the meaning of the Maritime Transport Act 1994? It probably doesn’t. Does the system that required reporting to the British authorities, and which perhaps produced the certificate you have, rate as a “system for recording information relating to deaths” as in Section 48(3)(b)(i)? It probably does.
You probably should contact N.Z. BDM and see if the death was registered but newspaper archives may be the most promising.
All the best,
Alan
P.S. I thought it rang a bell.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13359