James Begley / Biglay

[donnab]

Hello Everyone:

I believe I posted some time ago about a James Begley born 23 Jun 1837 he was one of my brick walls but I think I just might have found out what happen to him but need a little more info to confirm and hope that someone here might have some suggestions.

I found a certificate of death for a James Biglay this surname is often spelled incorrectly; the date of death for this James Begley is 23 Mary 1869 Springburn, Scotland it’s a little difficult to make out the writing on the certificate isn’t really that clear but the parent’s names appear to match the James Begley I’m searching for is the son of John Begley and Isabella McArthur the name of the mother on the certificate I found appears to be Isabella Biglay nee McArthur and the father appears to be Jack Biglay as my cousin pointed out men named John are called Jack so I just might have found my James Begley but I want to be sure. The last info we found on him indicated that he was a soldier and it also confirms this on the certificate, his age was 31 and if I’m reading it correctly he died in the Barnhill Poorhouse.

Now for my question is there a way to confirm the date of birth of this James if I could confirm the date of birth and it is the same as we have than I know I got the right person. These certificates never indicate where they are buried. Is there a way I could get a copy of the poor house application and maybe that might confirm a date of birth for him?

Thank you,

Donna

[Montrose Budie]

Hi Donna

On the home page of ScotlandsPeople click on "Contact Us" way down bottom right, then "Continue here to fill out the contact us form", then use the heading "Illegible Image", and report your problem.

This info gets passed to GROS in Edinburgh who will then arrange a rescan of the register page. They used to arrange a photocopy, but unless the situation is exceptional, photocopies are no longer provided for conservation reasons.


There's plenty TS members who regularly visit The Mitchell Library in Glasgow, where the Barnhill poor house records are archived. Hopefully, one of these folk will pick up on your post.

mb

[nelmit]

Dates of birth are a bit hit and miss in the poorhouse applications but since he was born at Glasgow there's a good chance it will be recorded. You can get a copy of the record but, if you want, I'll have a look at the application when I can get to The Mitchell and see if he's the one you're looking for first.

So......is he the Sergeant at Aldershot in 1861 and with his parents at Mcalpine Street in 1851?

Regards,
Annette

[donnab]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Yes Annette you got the correct person he's been our missing link we had assumed that he must have died in Scotland like his younger brother Archibald because they both never came to Canada with the other two Brothers, he is a twin of one of the brothers that came to Canada. I'm not sure if the certificate of death isn't clear because of the scanned copy or the actual printing its like the printing is faded out I have been able to make out some of the print but I will take your suggestion Montrese and see if I can get a clear copy, thank you. From what I can make out on the Certificate he died 23 March 1869 under his name it looks like Pauper and than formerly Soldier. His date of birth was 23 June 1837. The informant was the from the Barnhill Poorhouse at least it looks like Barnhill. I had a Dr. from my work read the certificate haha because I figured he could read bad handwriting and he said the cause of death was Phthisis (TB) I don't know how he made that out but he did.

If I recall Annette you were kind enought to help Karen (my cousin) and I by locating Poorhouse applications for Isabella Begley and her youngest son Archibald. Karen worked very hard and found Archibald and his certificate of death and birth now I'm hoping that this James will be our missing link. I do know that the certificates don't show the place of burial which searching various pages I came upon a page that suggest that inmates of the Poorhouses bodies were often donated to the Hospitals for research since families didn't have any money for burial, I wonder just how true that is? Working in Hospitals for many years here in Canada I know that we have patients that wanted their bodies donated to science for research however once the research is finished their bodies are buried/cremated it would be interesting to know who it works in Scotland.

He was listed as a soldier when he died I wonder if there would be record of that, in Canada war veteran funerals can be paid for by Veteran affairs and they will even provide a headstone if one is needed through a program called the Last Post Funds now that’s now I don’t know how it was in the early to mid 1800’s. Any information would be most appreciated.

If your research takes you to Canada and I can be of any help, please let me know. Happy to help anyone who needs it.

Donna

[AndrewP]

Hi Donna,

I read the death certificate as folllows:

• James Biglay, Pauper formerly Soldier (single)
  1869 March 23rd 5h 30m PM, Barnhill Poor House, Springburn
  M, 31 years
  Joseph Biglay, Quarryman
  Isabella Biglay, M.S. McCarter
  Pthisis, as certified by J Jack, Surgeon
  John M MacKay, Gov, Barnhill Poorhouse
  1869 March 25th at Springburn, Wm Arthur, Registrar

Like you, I would not take the spelling issues as a problem: Biglay / Begley and McCarter / McArthur.

All the best,

AndrewP

[Currie]

Hello Donna,

If he was a Sergeant in 1861, and nothing more than pauper, formerly soldier, in 1869, it may suggest that he had served his time and was possibly a Chelsea Pensioner. However being an army pensioner is probably inconsistent with being a pauper and he probably wasn’t. Nevertheless it may be an idea to check if there are any likely records at FMP. http://www.findmypast.co.uk/chelsea-pen ... art.action

The National Archives at Kew holds other military records for the period in question but you need to know the regiment to be able to find them. Here’s a research guide http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... tID=16&j=1

The newspapers of the day published monthly lists of “Stations of the British Army” The list of 1st April 1861 has Aldershot against the names of the following infantry Regiments of Foot.

10th (The North Lincolnshire) Regiment of Foot, (1st Bn.)
25th King's Own Borderers Regiment of Foot, (2nd Bn.)
29th (Worcestershire) Regiment of Foot
32nd (Cornwall) Regiment of Foot
41st (Welsh) Regiment of Foot
45th (Nottinghamshire) Regiment of Foot
49th (Hertfordshire) Regiment of Foot
55th (Westmoreland) Regiment of Foot

The list for 1st May has all of the above plus the following two.

16th (Bedfordshire) Regiment of Foot, (2nd Bn.)
84th (York and Lancaster) Regiment of Foot

The Regiment that stands out as being Scottish is the 25th. However, you can’t rely on that as regiments moved around a lot and cast a wide net when recruiting.

The type of government subsidised war cemetery that we see from WW1 in Europe is a relatively recent phenomenon. I’m not an expert on this but I can’t think of any previous conflicts where ordinary soldiers killed in action, as distinct from officers, were provided with individual marked graves. The same applies to surviving veterans of the Victorian wars in that they didn’t receive any special treatment when they died.

On the question of disposal of bodies of people who died in poorhouses and similar institutions. The Anatomy Act was introduced in 1832 to control previous problems. Under that Act, in Scotland, the Inspector of Anatomy had control of any unclaimed bodies and each body had to be accounted for. Naturally enough most of these would have come from various categories of institutions where residents had lost contact with their families or the families could not afford the expense of burial. Previously discussed here viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8663&hilit=

Hopefully any poorhouse records will add to the story.

All the best,
Alan

[donnab]

Hello:

Thank you Andrew for reading and transcribing the certificate and posting it here I received a clearer copy from SP taking the advice from MP and they very quickly I might add sent me a better copy and his fathers name was shown as Joseph but I'm not concerned about that since the informant was from the Poorhouse so he wouldn't be expected to know all about James.

Thank you Alan for the info and links once again you have been a BIG help, I actually did find info at the National Archives a long time ago about a James Begley that was in prison I ordered the info from them and I believe we determined that it was him but I'm going to find them on my computer and check the dates out again. Your points about him going from a Solider to a Pauper is interesting and has me wondering. I'm sure I'll be posting a message again soon letting you know what info I found thanks to you.

This is a GREAT web site you are all so helpful and friendly, not being from the UK it can be a little confusing trying to figure out where to get information from and you all make that very easy.

Many Thanks

Donna Borden

[nelmit]

Hello:

Thank you Andrew for reading and transcribing the certificate and posting it here I received a clearer copy from SP taking the advice from MP and they very quickly I might add sent me a better copy and his fathers name was shown as Joseph but I'm not concerned about that since the informant was from the Poorhouse so he wouldn't be expected to know all about him.

Donna Borden

Hi Donna,

The information would actually have been given to the inspector of the poorhouse by James himself.

I'm going to try and get to The Mitchell tomorrow and have a look at the application.

Regards,
Annette

[donnab]

Thank you Annette, yes thats true I guess James would have provided them with the info, but I still think there is a chance he could be my missing link.
Whenever you get a chance to go to the Library I appreciate it, your doing me a BIG favor.

Donna

[nelmit]

Sorry I didn't make it on Wednesday Donna but I will get there within the next couple of weeks.

Regards,
Annette