What is a Limited pensioner

[steiner]

Hello

Help appreciated on the above.

I have a relative listed in the 1881 census aged 23, as a "house-painter and limited pensioner 91st reg". Can anyone shed any light on what a limited pensioner is and where I can find any records?

thank you

Andy

[LesleyB]

Hi Andy
There is a post here which seems to mention the same:

Robert E Bach (1858) was living with Hugh Home & Elizabeth in 1881 at 10 Bakers Place Edinburgh. He was their Nephew and an Apprentice House Painter and Limited Pensioner 91 St Regt

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=298629.0

If you have not already seen that post I wonder if maybe that researcher might know a bit more background info? Worth a try!

best wishes
Lesley

[steiner]

Hi Lesley

Thank you, the other post you mention was made by a relative.

[LesleyB]

ok - thought you might already know about it!

A bit about the 91st here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/91st_(Argy ... nt_of_Foot

In 1881 during the Childers Reforms the 91st were amalgamated with the 93rd (Sutherland Highlanders) Regiment of Foot becoming the 1st Battalion, Princess Louise's Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

As far as I'm aware the regimantal museum is at Stirling castle, but I'd be inclined to think that any pension data would be likey to be at Kew... have you tried TNA catalogue?

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

I wonder if these records may hold anything..
My military knowledge is next to zero so I'm really not sure if a person who received a pension would have been discharged??!

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... mmary=True

WO Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Division within WO Records of the Royal Chelsea and Kilmainham Hospitals
WO 97 Royal Hospital Chelsea: Soldiers Service Documents
1855-1872: discharge papers arranged by regiment and range of surname. (WO 97/1272-1721)
Infantry

Record Summary
Scope and content 91st Regiment of Foot; later 91st (Argyllshire) Regiment of Foot: Abb - Hun
Covering dates 1855-1872
PLEASE NOTE: Electronic images of these records can be searched online through our website (a live link to this is available in the ScopeContent at series level).
Held by The National Archives, Kew
This series is currently undergoing digitisation (from May 2008). Access to certain pieces will be disrupted over the next 3 years and advance ordering of this series may be interrupted during this time. Please check with us that the pieces that you wish to consult are not affected before you travel. For more details please visit the project news at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/stories/212.htm (a live link to this is available in the ScopeContent at WO 97 series level).

There is also this:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... mmary=True

Piece reference WO 121/227
91st Regiment of Foot and Miscellaneous Corps from 1 Jan. 1871-31 Dec. 1879 Royal Army Reserve from Dec. 1878-Dec. 1879 ...

Context
WO Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies
Division within WO Records of the Royal Chelsea and Kilmainham Hospitals
WO 121 Royal Hospital, Chelsea: Discharge Documents of Pensioners
General Discharge Registers


Record Summary
Scope and content 91st Regiment of Foot and Miscellaneous Corps from 1 Jan. 1871-31 Dec. 1879 Royal Army Reserve from Dec. 1878-Dec. 1879
Covering dates 1871 Jan.-1879 Dec.
Held by The National Archives, Kew

Legal status Public Record(s)

[steiner]

Thanks for the posting Lesley.

I also found out that the 91st were in South Africa at the time of the Zulu war in 1879. I wondered if young Robert may have been wounded and invalided out of the army with a "limited pension".

Andy

[Currie]

Hello Andy & Lesley,

There’s mention of limited pensions in House of Commons Papers 1861, page 269. A limited pension, if it’s the same thing they’re talking about, appears to be one that only lasts for a certain period of time. Perhaps it is to do with degree of incapacity and permanency thereof. To give him time to settle back into normal employment and be sufficiently productive to support self and family.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=itw ... 22&f=false

Here’s part of the discussion:

5344. (Sir A. Tulloch.) Do you mean to say that a man who sustained such injury from wounds that he could not earn a livelihood, or was partially incapacitated from earning a livelihood, would only receive a temporary pension ?—I have known men to come to my place who have shown me their wounds.
5345. Has the wound been one incapacitating the man from earning his livelihood; has his hand or his wrist been contracted so that he could not use it, or has he lost an arm?—I have seen a wound in the hip; I have seen a wound in the leg; I have seen one in the back part of the head. The man thus wounded is a shoemaker, and if he holds down his head he becomes in such a stupid state that his vision is interfered with, and he cannot go on with his work. He says, "What am I to do? I cannot work at my trade now and my time has expired; my pension is exhausted; what am I to do? I may go to the workhouse." It is only the truth on their part.

There’s some more in “The British Soldier etc”, 1857, page 308.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=HS0 ... 22&f=false

The temporary pensions awarded to men discharged as unfit for the ordinary duties of a soldier, on account of disabilities contracted in and by the service, previously to the completion of fourteen years' service in the Infantry, or of seventeen years' in the Cavalry, may under extraordinary circumstances of extreme suffering, or of permanent incapacity to earn a sufficient livelihood, be made permanent.

Men discharged previously to the completion of twenty-one years' service in the Infantry, or of twenty-four years' service in the Cavalry, on account of being unfit for the duties of a soldier, in consequence of disability contracted in and by the service, are allowed temporary pensions according to the following scale; viz.;—

Under seven years' service, 6d. a day, from one to eighteen months.
Above seven, but under ten years' service, 6d. a day, from one to two years.
Above ten, but under fourteen years' service in the Infantry, or under seventeen years in the Cavalry, 6d. a day, from two to three years.
Above fourteen, but under twenty-one years' service in the Infantry, and above seventeen, but under twenty-four years' in the Cavalry, 6d. a day, from three to five years.

In severe cases of disability or injury, resulting entirely from military duty, or from the effects of climate, under twenty-one years' service in the Infantry, or twenty-four years' service in the Cavalry, the temporary pension may be renewed for such further period as the circumstances of the case may warrant.

A non-commissioned officer, who shall have served continuously as such, at least three years in the rank he held when discharged, may be allowed an addition not exceeding the following rates; viz., Corporal, 2d. a day. Sergeant, 4d. a day, to the temporary pension which would have been granted to him if he had been discharged as a private.

In special cases, where it may be considered more advantageous to the soldier's interest that a gratuity in money, proportioned to the length of his services and the duration of the temporary pension awarded, should be given instead of the temporary pension, a sum varying from 1l. to 30l. may be allowed by the Commissioners, if the soldier appear personally before them; or by the Secretary-at-War, if the soldier be discharged without being examined personally by the Commissioners; but in every instance the gratuity shall be paid to the soldier only, after his arrival at the place of his intended future residence.

Perhaps the temporary pension records would be with the main run of Chelsea Pensioner records available on FMP

Alan

[steiner]

Thanks Alan. Much of what you found backs up my theory re wound/discharge. I checked the Pension record you mentioned but no joy.

Thanks to you both for helping out.

Andy