old parishes

[eileen cameron]

Help required with old parishes please.
My husbands great grandfather was born 1866 Lanarkshire (1901 Census), Torrins Lanarkshire (1891 Census)
I have discovered that Torrins was a parish of East Kilbride, but was it in 1866.
James Cameron was a Travelling Tinsmith (tinker) and as he never seemed to marry his 2 partners (in the traditional sense) I have no names to go on. This makes it hard to also find a death.
I was wondering if anyone can help me with this as no births occurred for a James Cameron 1864-1868 East Kilbride.
Was it called something else then?
I have been looking for him for 3 years now and only found him and family in 1891 census a few weeks ago.
I'm wondering if it's going to take another 3 years to find him in 1881.
Any help or suggestions would be very much appreciated.
Thank you for reading this
Eileen

[nelmit]

Hello and welcome to Talking Scot Eileen,

Where was James living when you found him in 1891 and 1901 - I've searched Ancestry and cannot find him?

I'm thinking Torrance would be his place of birth.

Regards,
Annette

[Susan]

Eileen

This could be your James in 1881 from Ancestry.

Name: James Cameron
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relationship: Son
Father's name: Wm Cameron
Mother's name: Jessie Cameron
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarksh
Registration Number: 644/7
Registration district: Blythswood
Civil Parish: Glasgow Barony
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Renfrew St 70
Occupation: Tinsmith
ED: 60
Household schedule number: 33
Line: 13
Roll: cssct1881_231
Household Members: Name Age
Wm Cameron 50
Jessie Cameron 51
Ronald D Cameron 26
William Cameron 23
Colin Cameron 21
Mary Cameron 17
James Cameron 15
Charlotte Ross 27

If it is then he would have been born 11 August 1864, Milton, Glasgow to William Cameron and Jessie/Janet McDonald.

Hope this helps.
Susan.

[eileen cameron]

Hi Annette
In 1901 he was in markinch fife with his 3 children (partner was dead)
In 1891 he was in monikie angus with Mary McLaren his partner and 4 children.
Names are spelt camneron and mclarom
I have certs for Mary and his 4 children but nothing for him.
Eileen

[eileen cameron]

Hi Susan
I have looked at this one often but I have not found death cert to confirm that it is him,
The family story goes that once Mary (his partner) died 1901 he found another Mary and had an illigitimate child, Jean
Her birth cert seems to confirm this but by the time she marries he is James McPhee Cameron and her death cert gives parents as Peter and Kate Cameron.
Do you think they just used whatever name popped into their heads first
Eileen

[nelmit]

To answer your original question I'd go for Blantyre or Hamilton (which would have been New Monkland) as his place of birth if it was Torrance. There also seems to be another Torrance in Lanarkshire near Shotts. However, in 1901 he says Lanark which is further south. .

I liked the look of Peter Cameron and Euphemia Anderson as parents but they don't appear to have had a son called James and I can't find them in 1871.
The McPhee middle name popping up made me wonder if he was illegitimately born McPhee but the only one I could find was born at Glasgow and registered at Coatbridge where his mother lived.

If you don't have a death entry for him then I would wait till April when the 1911 census will be available and see what he says then if he's still alive.

Sorry not much help at the moment.

Regards,
Annette

[JustJean]

You may already have this info....wee Euphemia marries Alex Townsley in 1915. On the MC neither of her parents are indicated as deceased. You mentioned that Mary McLaren was dead by 1901. I'm assuming then that Effie's MC info isn't reliable?

Best wishes
Jean

[Grendlsmother]

Whilst the information given on original SP certificates is generally 99% correct, the information is only as good as the person who gave it. I have several examples of mis-information on original SP certificates which are probably due to the informant mis-interpreting the question or simply not knowing. When registration first started, people were not used to this sort of bureaucracy and may have felt intimidated, also, of course, they were quite often illiterate. These are examples I have found.

My ggxgrandfather's death cert. list his father as having the same name, mother's name unknown. I know this to be the wrong name. Presumably his parents died when he was very young and his children never knew their grandparents or their names. I suggest the questioning went something like "father's name?" and his son thought the registrar was asking him to repeat the name of the deceased. "And what was his mother's name?" - "Don't know".

Again, on a marriage certificate. "Father's name?" - gives correct name of her father. "Mother's name?" - gives her paternal grandmother's name when she must have known very well who her mother was (still living and close by).

When my grandfather died, one of his sons was sent off to find his birth cert as presumably this was missing. I know this, because on the death cert, the person listed (incorrectly) as his mother is actually the mother on the birth immediately above his on the register. My uncle (or someone in the registrar's office) obviously mis-read the entries. Presumably my grandmother never checked the certificate, or was too upset to notice, because the correct mother is named on her marriage certificate.

So, what I am saying is, however reliable the information , if something seems not quite right, don't always assume it is you who are on the wrong track, try to check it out elsewhere.

[Currie]

Hello Eileen,

This is probably no use at all.

Ninety five percent of tinkering Cameron mentions in the Scottish newspapers is in the Dundee Courier. There doesn’t seem to be anything at all from the Glasgow side of the country, perhaps they lived quieter lives. The name Cameron, tinker, and McPhee, crop up together occasionally. Here are some summaries.

The Dundee Courier & Argus and Northern Warder, Tuesday, November 13, 1883.
James Cameron, tinker, and Mary M’Phee, his wife, charged with stealing a blanket from lodging-house in Meal Vennel occupied by Edward Reilly. Charge against James not proved but wife guilty.

The Dundee Courier & Argus and Northern Warder, Sunday, March 30, 1886.
Dundee Police Court. James Cameron and Mary M’Fee, tinkers, charged with vagrancy. Said they had lived in a house in Lochey until Saturday and that they had four children including a baby. Children Clemintina (13), Catherine (10), and David (6) committed to poorhouse subject to further inquiry.

There’s a very detailed report about the family’s circumstances in the Dundee Courier & Argus and Northern Warder, Friday, April 02, 1886. The girls were committed to Wellshill School, Perth, and the boy to Baldovan School, Dundee. The father said that they had a house in Lochee, and he has a brother in Letham. The eldest girl said they had a house in Montrose at one time.

This fellow appears to have been born much earlier than the mid 1860s but maybe there’s a connection somewhere.

All the best,
Alan