Any thoughts on this please

[hg]

I have been in contact with someone in America who appears to share ancestry with me. Wiliam Mckenzie, no birth date, died 1793 (can't remember where I got this from) Married to Ann McViccar. So far I have found 3 childrem, my ancestor John McKenzie borm 1763, Alexander Mckenzie born 1764 and Archibald McKenzie born 1765. The lady in America states that
Samuel McKenzie born 1785 - 1847 is either a child or a grandchild/nephew of William and Ann's and has them as his parents. She directed me towards the Oxford DNB for Samuel stating this is her ancestor. I have had a look. The Article states
'Mackenzie, Samuel (1785–1847), portrait painter, was born in the parish of Kilmuir, Ross-shire, on 28 December 1785 and baptized on 31 December, when his name was omitted from the parish register. His parents were William Mackenzie, a fisherman in Portlich, Ross-shire, and his wife, Ann. Family information records that his father died when Samuel was eight years old and the young lad worked as a herd-boy for an uncle.' Where did the information come from? Does anyone know how accurate the Oxford DNB is?
While this may be her ancestor I am not convinced he is related to Willam and Ann. There are to many discrepancies. Appart from the twenty year age gap between Archibald and Samuel, the marriage of William and Ann along with the births of their three children takes place in Dunoon while Samuels birth (according to the Oxford DNB) takes place in Ross and Cromarty.
I have found on SP the baptisim for an un-named child to a William and Ann in Ross and Cromerty that the Oxford DNB refers to.
I suppose the death details of William tie in with Samuel father dying when he was eight.
Would a fisherman move to Ross and Cromarty from Danoon? It's possible.
Sorry to waffle, but I am just trying to make sense of it all. Any suggestions anybody?
Helen

[AnneM]

Hi Helen

I was drawn to your post because of the number of William McKenzies in my tree and the fact that I was born in Dunoon though I know of no connection to your family. My comment on the 'link' is that William M(a)cKenzie is a very common name as is Ann and it does not appear from your post that you have a surname for the mother of the Samuel. As you say a 20 year gap seems unlikely. I would guess it is a different William. I would tend to expect that people would move South rather than North but then again who knows. There may be someone out there with better info on the Ross-shire birth.

From the extracted record in the IGI it gives the mother of the un-named child as Ann MacKenzie which would suggest that that was also her maiden name.This also suggests that she is not the Ann McViccar who is the mother of your family. I have to say that I would be very surprised to know that this was the same family.

Anne

[SarahND]

Hello, Helen,
I can only speak to part of your post:

Does anyone know how accurate the Oxford DNB is?

I have found serious errors in the DNB concerning my own relatives. There seems to be very little care to get the details right and statements are made without checking primary sources (e.g.. a birthplace given as Glasgow instead of Aberdeen, when the birth record is there for all to see). In addition, I have found what appear to be copying errors from one edition to the next, where the simplest of proofreading would have shown them up. In one case the death of his son was transposed over as the death of his wife and was clearly just copying one part of a paragraph in the wrong place-- inexcusable, in my opinion.

Rant over
All the best,
Sarah

[paddyscar]

Just curious as to what the Oxford DNB is? I'm sure I'll , but can come up with nothing that fits. Also where would I find it?

Thanks,
Frances

[Currie]

Hello Helen,

The ‘family information’ about Samuel came from a son. He was uncertain about his father’s date of birth and had a dim idea his grandfather was a distiller. His father had an elder brother, Sandy, presumably an Alexander. Here are some short extracts from the first page of about six on the subject in “The Royal Scottish Academy of Painting, etc” Esmé Gordon, 1976. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=YbD ... CDsQ6AEwAA

Reminiscences of Samuel Mackenzie, RSA,
1785-1847.
Extracted (and slightly edited) from a manuscript by his son in the possession of the R.S.A.

“It is with diffidence that I enter upon the task of setting down the limited remembrance—all I ever attained—of my father’s life career. I was but a youth, and I was only beginning to know him, when he was taken from us, forty-four years ago. The date of his birth is unknown to me with certainty — I believe the year to be 1785. His birth was registered in the Parish of Kilmuir, Ross-shire. I have only a dim idea that his father was a distiller somewhere in Ross-shire, and he himself was told by relatives of the family that his father claimed to the last to be in more direct descent from the Kenneth (Gerald), the founder of the clan, than the Chief then in possession.”

“I have clear recollection of my father's elder brother, "Uncle Sandy". His personal appearance was as unlike my father's as possible. My father's features were of the short Celtic type. Uncle Sandy's face was entirely different. He was a man of grave aspect, with rather long features, a fine class of face altogether.” …………………….. “Poor Uncle Sandy — I was but a child when I saw him on his deathbed.”

“Before my father was eight years of age, death snatched away both his father and mother; the poor little boys were taken in hand by an uncle, who ordered matters so that my father could declare that from the time when he was eight years of age, he was beholden for help to no one. He got food, shelter and clothes, and no more, for incessant work, as hard as his tiny frame could stand, herding sheep and tending cattle.”

Hope that helps,
Alan

[AndrewP]

Just curious as to what the Oxford DNB is? I'm sure I'll , but can come up with nothing that fits. Also where would I find it?

Hi Frances,

Oxford DNB = Oxford Dictionary of National Biography

http://www.oxforddnb.com/

Make what you will from their definition of the Oxford DNB at http://www.oup.com/oxforddnb/info/quickguide/what/ .

It is defined as made up of 57000 life stories. My own interpretation of that is similar to that of the submitted entries on the IGI. Some are good, and based on primary evidence or at least other good information; others are based on family stories, some of which may be good, others may have lost sight of the facts over the years; and there may be a few which are cobbled together to bridge the gap between known good information and someone else's tree that nearly fits.

In their FAQ, it refers to the printed version as 60 volumes taking up 12 feet of shelf length. At 1500GBP or 2500USD, I would think it is for the reference libraries rather than your household book-shelves for bedtime reading. Or you can subscribe to it to view online.

All the best,

AndrewP

[SarahND]

In their FAQ, it refers to the printed version as 60 volumes taking up 12 feet of shelf length. At 1500GBP or 2500USD, I would think it is for the reference libraries rather than your household book-shelves for bedtime reading.

It makes an impressive display in the library, handsomely bound and looking like an encyclopedia... but it should be used carefully as you would any unverified source. Too many other authors take it as fact and perpetuate the errors in their own books.

All the best,
Sarah

[Montrose Budie]

......much snipped ........ Would a fisherman move to Ross and Cromarty from Danoon? It's possible. ...snipped....... Helen

I assume that's Dunoon.

Such a move is much easier or likely than it might at first appear, given the Crinan Canal, completed in 1809, at the top of this Argyle peninsula, between Ardrishaig and Crinan, obviating the need for the long and potentially dangerous journey round the Mull of Kintyre; and Caledonian Canal, completed in 1822, between Fort William and Inverness, thus avoiding the very long and also potentially dangerous journey all the way up the West and North-West of Scotland and around the North of Scotland.

It was often the case that fisherman from the deep South-West of Scotland, say Ballantrae or even Portpatrick spent some time during the year fishing off the NE coast, sailing there via the Crinan and Caledonian canals; and so making contacts, leading to marriages, moves there, etc.

Of course, prior to 1822, and 1809, it wouldn't have been so easy.

mb

[hg]

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my query, you have given me a lot to think about.
mb, Yes, indeed it should be Dunoon, a slip of the finger when I was using the keyboard I was hoping no one would notice.
Alan, the extracted manuscript of Samuel McKenzie RSA was interesting. The lady in America told me about this and appears to have taken the information as gospel whereas I on the other hand have even more doubt after reading it. The writer refers to the 'poor little boys' this infers more than one child was orphaned, added to the other discrepancies and the errors in the DNB Sarah refers to, I have yet to be convinced that Samuel is related to William and Ann.
thanks
Helen