Pattinson's Vennel, Paisley - Where was it?

[Rockford]

Hi,

I'm trying to locate Pattinson or Pattison's Vennel in Paisley, which is where some of my relations were living in 1860 or thereabouts. I've looked at the NLS maps site, but I am having difficulty locating it as the level of zoom needed to read the street names means that it may take years of my life to find it!

The ancestor in question was an Engine Keeper, so were not looking at the posher bits.....

Any local knowledge appreciated!

Thanks

Brian

[Russell]

Hi Brian

I live just outside Paisley and know the town fairly well but none of the maps I can locate give sufficient detail to pick out a vennel. The smallest picked out on the O.S. 1860 map are the lanes. Vennels were covered access into back court developments and the many works found all across Paisley and don't show up on the maps. I concentrated on areas like Old Sneddon, Wellmeadow, George Street where there were concentrations of workshops and factories but no joy.
I wonder if a site like paisley.org.uk where the mods and Admin are from Paisley and have good, detailed local knowledge might be able to check it out for you.
Another clue might be picked up in the name itself as the buildings could have been built by a local employer to house his workers. An Engine keeper would be employed by every foundry, dye works, engineering workshop in Paisley and was a reasonably responsible job.
Have you found them in the 1861 census ? A quick look at the opening pages of the census book (free to view from S.P.) might clarify which part of Paisley was being enumerated.
Sorry I can't be more help.

Russell

[Rockford]

Hi Russell,

I lived in Paisley for 9 years as a student and just after graduating and I'm scratching my head too!

The info comes from a birth certificate in 1858. By the 1861 Census, they were at 7 Seedhill, Paisley where the father, John Craig was probably working at the Clark's Mill complex at the western end of what is now Seedhill Road. Between 1858 and 1861, they seem to have flitted back to Shotts (or at least the mother did) for the birth of their next child and they all seem to have left Paisley for good sometime before 1866(ish) finally settling in Uphall.

I'll try paisley.org.uk to see what comes up there. I had tried some of the old directories on Google Books and although there are a couple of Pattison's listed, there isn't any mention of a vennel by that name.

Best wishes

Brian

[Currie]

Hello Brian,

Have you tried the directories from the National Library of Scotland at the Internet Archive? (or are they the ones you meant). They have at least fifty directories with Paisley in the title. http://www.archive.org/search.php?query ... 0directory

There’s a Pattison Street in Paisley, or at least there was, in the 1880s and 1890s. It Googles and is in the newspapers and is in the directories for that period. It appears to have been off Greenhill Road, westward. It looks to be pretty thoroughly industrialised there now. If you check an 1890s map for it’s exact location and maybe then compare it to an 1850s map to see what was in that exact spot then.

Maybe the Vennel was officially developed into a street, somehow, in the 1880s, but until then didn’t rate a mention.

Clutching at straws,
Alan

[Russell]

Hi Alan

Just to amplify your thoughts. You have probably located the right part of Paisley. That area had loads of workshops and, not surprisingly, plenty of warehouses for the shawls and ponchos which were manufactured in and around Paisley. Quite a few of the warehouse owners were English and the name Pattison might have English origins too. The term 'vennel' is more often found in England. Here in Paisley it would more commonly be referred to as a 'pend' i.e.- an opening through a building used as access to store rooms or workshops to the rear of the building. I wonder if Mr Pattison built his warehouse behind properties then his name was given to the street ?
The term 'close' has a different meaning in England too. In the West of Scotland it is used to refer to a common entry/stair in a tenement building. In Edinburgh it was referred to as a 'stair'. But then Edinburgh was more upmarket that Glasgow and its surrounds

Russell

[LesleyB]

The term 'close' has a different meaning in England too. In the West of Scotland it is used to refer to a common entry/stair in a tenement building. In Edinburgh it was referred to as a 'stair'. But then Edinburgh was more upmarket that Glasgow and its surrounds

My "east coast of Scotland" understanding of the word "close" is of a narrow passage, usually running inbetween buildings, and often provding a shortcut from one street to another.

I've seen "Vennel" used in late 1700 Scottish documents when referring to parts of Leith. I think it may have been more used then than perhaps it would be now in Scotland.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Montrose Budie]

In Glasgow at least, a close, as Russell comments, is used to refer to a common entry/stair in a tenement building.

It may also give access to the back court, so can be used as short cut.

mb

[Rockford]

Hi everyone,

Sorry I haven't been around to acknowledge the posts and suggestions this week. Sometimes work has a habit of interfering!

Alan - I had looked at some of the directories via NLS, although by now means all of them. I found a few people named Pattison, but no streets or vennels.

It's not one of my burning genealogical questions - I was just curious where it might be, as if often appears that I've been inadvertently stalking my forebears for years. It is quite frightening how often I find that I have lived on the same street or round the corner from people 100 or so years ago in places where I never expected them to be. When I went to Uni in Paisley I thought I was the only member of the family to have lived there - then I found the Craigs and my great great grandparents virtually next door to me. When I moved to Coatbridge, there were other relations living round the corner in 1901 and when I took up my present employment, I found that I could see where my great-grandfather was born from my office window!!

Thanks for the help and suggestions,

Brian

[LesleyB]

When I went to Uni in Paisley I thought I was the only member of the family to have lived there - then I found the Craigs and my great great grandparents virtually next door to me. When I moved to Coatbridge, there were other relations living round the corner in 1901 and when I took up my present employment, I found that I could see where my great-grandfather was born from my office window!!

I love it when that kind of thing happens. There is a feeling of being part of something much larger, and it always makes me feel much more closely linked to those who went before.

I sometimes think that the choices we make, which we think are independant choices (like your going to Paisley Uni) are actually not independant choices at all, but that they are guided by our genetic inheritance; just as we may have facial features or other obvious physical resemblances, I believe we also inherit "patterns" of brain cells, causing us to prefer, for instance, one thing over another.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Ann In the UK]

I agree Lesley.

My sister met and married her Scottish hubby and moved from England to Scotland many moons ago, long before we knew our forebears originated less than ten miles from where she now lives.

And there she was thinking she was a rebel and a trailblazer

Best wishes,
Ann