My mysterious Gt Uncle.

[sheilajim]

Hi All,
I mentioned my Gt Uncle Hugh McLaren a few years ago on another post. He was my mother's favorite uncle. She often talked about him but of course, at that time, I didn't pay that much attention. Now I am having trouble finding out more about him.
I had no trouble finding his Birth Cert. The record shows that he was born May 23, 1883 at Barclay St. in Paisley, Renfrewshire. Father: Henry Moncrieff McLaren. Mother: Agnes Boyd. All this is fine and good, same parents as my grandmother.

On the 1891 Census, he is listed as 7 yrs old, living in Paisley with his 18 yr old brother. The family seems to have broken up. His mother, my GGrandmother is only 40 yrs old but is in a hospital where she died shortly after the census was taken. My 13 yr old Grandmother is staying with her aunt. I am not certain where my GGrandfather is.
On the 1901 Census, Hugh McLaren now 17 yrs old is staying with my grandparents, his now married sister and her husband.
I looked for him on the 1911 Census and found a Hugh McLaren 27, born in Paisley living with his wife, Lily, and children in Paisley.
I found a Death Cert in 1945 for a Hugh McLaren in Paisley. The age was correct. It looked like this was my GUncle. widower of Lily Frame. Father: Henry McLaren, but the mother was listed as Elizabeth Boyd. What is going on here? I found a marriage cert. for Hugh McLaren & Lily Frame, it also listed the father as Henry McLaren and Elizabeth Boyd. Now I am totally confused. My GGrandmother Agnes Boyd had a younger sister whose name was Elizabeth Boyd. On the 1891 Census she is listed as living with her mother and siblings on Barclay St. in Paisley.

What are the chances of two Hugh Mclarens being born in 1883 in Paisley with the father being Henry McLaren? I can find no birth record for a Hugh McLaren born to Henry McLaren and Elizabeth Boyd. I can find no marriage record for them either. I can also not find any marriage record for Henry McLaren and Agnes Boyd either, but they had at least 5 children. The only marriage record I can find for Henry Moncrieff Mclaren is for his first wife Agnes Kennedy, who happens to be Agnes Boyd's aunt. This in itself had given me something of a shock. Agnes Kennedy was the younger sister of my GGGrandmother Elizabeth Kennedy who married John Boyd. I cannot find a death record for Elizabeth Boyd, but she is listed as deceased on Hugh McLaren's 1906 Marriage Record.

What do you think? Am I looking at two different people here, two different Hugh McLarens? If so one of them has gone strangely missing. Another thing that might not mean anything, my grandmother Mary McLaren took care to go by the Scottish naming pattern, with one exception, she had 3 daughters and 2 sons, (one died as an infant). She did not name her 2nd son for her father.

I am so confused.

[Montrose Budie]

Hi Sheila


I found a Death Cert in 1945 for a Hugh McLaren in Paisley.

Who's the informant ?

mb

[sheilajim]

Hi MB,

The informant on the Death Record was his daughter Agnes McLaren.

[Andy]

The information given on any record is only as good as the knowledge the person reporting the event had at the time.

Any birth, or marriage date reported by fathers/husbands can be years out (less so by mothers). Details on marriage certs were sometimes posted, by the witness at the wedding. These details were copied from the Church to register by a runner, by the time the registrar got the info it was FOURTH hand and, unless the original information was correct in the first place, a Chinese Whispers of transription errors FREQUENTLY filtered through to the official certificate.

About the only thing you can be positive about are Church Baptisms and recorded actual marriages (not banns). I've come across dozens of folk Baptized before they were born!

Death dates, by and large, are correct but, again, parentage is only as accurate as the person reporting the death knows.

[sheilajim]

Hi Andy,

I can see one error, an error on the Death Cert. However on the Marriage Cert. Hugh has listed his mother as Elizabeth Boyd. It would be unusual to have two errors, both listing the mother as Elizabeth Boyd instead of Agnes Boyd. I suppose that stranger things have happened though. I am going to have to do more research on this.

[Bertha]

Good Morning Sheila
As I too have McLarens in my name, thought I'd help you with a bit of digging at http://www.familysearch.org. Have you tried this site? It has Parish Records upto 1875 I think & I have found it a great place to look.
I did a parent search for Henry Moncrieff McLaren, they were none other than Henry McLaren & Agnes Kennedy.

Children for this couple are

1. WILLIAM MCLAREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 30 JUL 1861 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland
2. DUNCAN MCLAREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 17 MAR 1860 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland
3. HENRY MONCRIEF MCLAREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 13 AUG 1865 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland
4. AGNES MCLAREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 17 Jun 1863 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland
5. JONATHAN MCLAREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 16 JUL 1867 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland

Good luck with your search, I have found my Gr grandfather's family an elusive bunch, especially as I suspect the parents names are wrong on his marriage certificate!
All the best
Bertha

[Bertha]

There are quiet a few Henry Moncrieff McLarens but I think your Hugh just got his mother's name a bit mixed up with the woman who probably helped raise him, my gr grandmother gave the wrong surname for her mother on her's, she'd lost her mother at 9 yrs of age & her father before she became an adult.
Found Henry's DC, he died in 1894 parents names are given as Neil McLaren & Mary McKinnon, widower of Agnes Kennedy & Agnes Boyd the informant was his daughter Agnes McLaren. This Henry is not listed with these parents on www.familysearch.org.
If you would like me to send the entry to you, pm me your e-mail address.
Also in my previous post, I thought the Busby referred to was in England, seems Busby is also a place in Mearns Renfrew as that is the address on Henry's marriage to Agnes Kennedy.
Note that Agnes (Boyd) McLaren is the only signatory on the certificate, this would only have been allowed if she had her marriage certificate with her when she registered the birth.
Sorry if I appear to have been rambling on but I have had so much help on here, I thought I ought to pay some back.
Bertha

[Montrose Budie]

Henry Moncrieff McLAREN was married twice, these being the 1875 and earlier kids from FamilySearch, -

Father: Henry Mclaren, Mother: Agnes Kennedy (d. 1867)

DUNCAN MCLAREN - IGI
Birth: 17 MAR 1860 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland
WILLIAM MCLAREN - IGI
Birth: 30 JUL 1861 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland
AGNES MCLAREN - IGI
Birth: 17 JUN 1863 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland
HENRY MONCRIEF MCLAREN - IGI
(died aged 4 in 1870)
Birth: 13 AUG 1865 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland
JONATHAN MCLAREN - IGI
Birth: 16 JUL 1867 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland (d. 1868, aged 6 mos)


Father: Henry Mclaren, Mother: Agnes Boyd (d. 1891)

JOHN MCLAREN - IGI
Birth: 10 AUG 1869 Kilbarchan, Renfrew, Scotland
NEIL MCLAREN - IGI
Birth: 28 MAY 1871 Kilbarchan, Renfrew, Scotland
HENRY MONCRIEF MCLAREN - IGI
Birth: 20 NOV 1872 Kilbarchan, Renfrew, Scotland
ELIZABETH KENNEDY MCLAREN - IGI
Birth: 23 NOV 1874 Kilbarchan, Renfrew, Scotland

Obviously, as Family Search only covers the period up to 1875, there will be other kids born in 1876 and later.

I strongly suspect that his marriage to Agnes BOYD was a marriage by declaration that was never formalised via a Sheriff's Warrant.

mb

[Montrose Budie]

.....snipped.....

Found Henry's DC, he died in 1894 parents names are given as Neil McLaren & Mary McKinnon, widower of Agnes Kennedy & Agnes Boyd the informant was his daughter Agnes McLaren. This Henry is not listed with these parents on http://www.familysearch.org.
If you would like me to send the entry to you, pm me your e-mail address.
Also in my previous post, I thought the Busby referred to was in England, seems Busby is also a place in Mearns Renfrew as that is the address on Henry's marriage to Agnes Kennedy.
Note that Agnes (Boyd) McLaren is the only signatory on the certificate, this would only have been allowed if she had her marriage certificate with her when she registered the birth.
Sorry if I appear to have been rambling on but I have had so much help on here, I thought I ought to pay some back.
Bertha

It is not, even today, and never was a requirement of Scottish civil registration laws for the marriage certificate to be produced by the father or mother when registering the birth !


Whatever the informant reported as the information was recorded, including the [alleged?!] date and place of the marriage.


For a birth or a death, all that was required was for the informant to turn up at the registrar's office and register the event. The registrar could only take on trust the information provided, as he had no power to demand supporting documentation, apart from the medical certificate regarding the fact and the cause of a death.

Of course, in a small rural parish, he may well have had detailed knowledge of a birth, so that a raised eyebrow and an informal word or two may have led to a correction by the informant !


Marriages were a different matter, with a marriage schedule having to be completed by the couple and signed by the celebrant, unless there was a Sheriff's Warrant involved !

mb

[sheilajim]

Hi All,

Bertha, I would like to thank you and everyone else for trying to help me find some resolution to this mystery. I do have all of the births for Henry Moncrieff McLarens children from his marriage to my GAunt Agnes Kennedy and my GGrandmother Agnes Boyd. I do love the IGI and especially the parent search, I wish that SP had a Parent Search too. It would save a lot of money if they did.

Regarding any marriage of Henry McLaren to Agnes Boyd. It was supposedly in Busby, the same place where he married her aunt Agnes Kennedy. I wonder if he thought: "Why bother to get married again? Isn't once enough? Both women are named Agnes and are from the same family."

I find it strange that he was at all of the births of Agnes Boyd's children except for the birth of Hugh Boyd McLaren. I also find it strange that Agnes Boyd chose to have the birth of Hugh at her mother's place. None of her earlier children appear to have been born there.

I just noticed something else. On Hugh McLaren's marriage cert. his wife's mother first name is also listed as Elizabeth. Checking further on Lily Frame McLaren's Death Cert., her mother is again listed as Elizabeth.

On the 1911 Census, Hugh Boyd McLaren and Lily Frame have two daughters, the oldest one is Elizabeth, the second one is named, guess what, Agnes. What on earth? Maybe after all, unlikely as it seems, there has been two errors done by different people. One error on the Marriage Cert and then one on the Death Cert. Then again it doesn't seem likely that there would be the two same errors. I don't know what to think.

It doesn't mean much today but if Hugh's mother is Elizabeth Boyd, it would certainly have been very scandalous and would likely have caused a lot of distress for the entire family at that time.